What's that technique for?

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by KickChick, Mar 9, 2005.

  1. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    Obviously it is best to ask your instructor this question when learning a new technique whose application is unknown to you. I hear it quite alot during class... but then there are those students that do not ask questions or those instructors that may or may not explain the application of certain movements in patterns.

    I suspect that there are as many answers offered by instructors for various techniques as there are instructors in Tae Kwon Do. Usually students accept without question although invariably without a full understanding of the application provided..... as you can see from many of the posts regarding application of techniques performed in various forms practice.


    I firmly believe that it is a TKD instructors utmost responsibility to provide workable and practical self defence solutions to the techniques that they teach their students. However, sometimes that is not the case.

    I'm hoping with this thread to get fellow TKD students to ask more questions of their instructors first and foremost..... but I thought this thread could also serve a purpose to provide answers for questionable technique applications and thus we can all learn from one another.
     
  2. Jang Bong

    Jang Bong Speak softly....big stick

    This is a good idea KC. It actually gets more complicated than this, as my instructor explained the practical application of a 'preparitory movement' that takes place before one of our forms. I had always though it was ceremonial, but no... it has a use :eek:
     
  3. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member


    ... perhaps similar to "heaven hand" the 'preparitory' movement in the beginning of Kwang Gae.

    And also the 'warrior stance' which starts off Yoo Sin.
    "This ready posture signifies a sword drawn on the right rather than left side, symbolizing Yoo Sin's mistake of following his Kings' orders to fight with foreign forces against his own nation"

    So not ALL movements require "practical " application (??).... :Angel:
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2005
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    (bold faced added- Thomas)

    Great post!
    I would add as well that many instructors love it when students ask questions and are usually very happy to respond and demonstrate. If students don't ask questions, we have to guess sometimes. Although generally when we teach techniques, we show the application anyway - but it's nice when students ask questions or offer alternative targets or ideas.

    P.S.
    So what's the application here?
     
  5. Yudanja

    Yudanja Euphoric

     
  6. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    :D nice!

    Gosh... could it be part of the art/culture aspect of TKD (am I allowed to say that?)
     
  7. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    Actually the encyclopedia describes this ready position of heaven hand as a point of meditation and preparation for the form.

    There are other theories I've read about that the heaven hand in Kwang-Gae signifies that the King is checking the weather for the day to see if it is suitable for a military strike - and then the fast movement of the pushing the hands apart signifies "attack!".

    Also the beginning closed ready stances of other forms have been said to signifiy holding the long staff.
     
  8. Rustman

    Rustman New Member

    Yul Gok Technique.

    Currently i'm a green/blue stripe, 5th gup/kup, training with the TAGB (Tae Kwon-do Association of Great Britain).
    As i have been taught, patterns are meant to be a theoretical way of practicing combat against imaginary opponant(s).
    When learning these techniques, we have been told, it can aid understanding of the pattern if you were to imagine opponants attacking you from each angle the pattern turns to. Sometimes we would stage the pattern with real opponants attacking us, and using the movements of the pattern to defend/counter the attack.

    My question is, if all movements are theroretically functional in defence/countering attacks, what use is the first move of the pattern Yul-Gok (a measuring punch). How would this be useful unless you were stood behind someone who is not expecting a blow to the back of the neck/rib-cage.

    I have asked my tutor, and as she didn't know she said she would ask her instructor (the national TAGB coach) but have not got back to me.

    Was wondering if you could shed any light.

    Cheers...
     
  9. gemtkd

    gemtkd Valued Member

    Well as you know technically the first move is in line with the shoulder not to the centre line. I believe it's a warning - a kinda stay back or I'll hit you! They don't stay back to you move it to the centre line and punch. My wording probably doesn't make sense but thats what my instructors instructor says, though I think it's a theory but not sure! :)
     
  10. kabmartial

    kabmartial New Member

    Yul-Gok Opening

    Our instructor taught us that the opening of Yul-Gok was a "blinded" technique; in other words, one that measures the opponent in case it was dark or you were temporarily blind. This is just what he taught, but it works for me when working the pattern itself.

    -Kab
     
  11. Nick K

    Nick K Sometimes a Valued Member

    Several purposes, maybe

    To demonstrate grace
    To aid focus development
    To act as measuring aid and reaction aid - if you are touching someone and they move, you'll react faster than if you were simply watching them - or indeed, if you can't see them
     
  12. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    We were involved in a discussion during class involving a technique performed in the hyung "Toi-Gye".

    Give me your thoughts on the application of the W-Shape Block.

    What are you actually blocking with?
    What technique are you blocking against?
    Are those blocks high or middle?
     
  13. xxblackkatxx

    xxblackkatxx The Gimpy Taekwon Monkey!

    yul-gok palm hooking block...

    okay, in yul-gok i'm having problems with the palm hooking block and reverse palm hooking block [movements 14,15,17 and 18, i think]. my questions are these:
    -are they preformed slowly or with a snap?
    -what part of the hand are you actually blocking with?
    -on the reverse palm hooking blocks, how far down in the sine wave motion do you go?

    i'm also having trouble teaching my fellow classmates how to A) prepare for the block and B) go from the palm hooking block to the revers palm hooking block.

    answers to any of my questions would be greatly appretiated <3
    -kat =^.^=
     
  14. Yudanja

    Yudanja Euphoric

    1.The two palm hooking blocks are performed in slow motion..the punch is not. What do you mean by reverse palm hooking block? Both hooking blocks are performed in the exact same way (except for which hand you are using). Hands crossing in front of your chest similar to an outside forearm block.

    2.Your instructor never showed you what part of the hand you are using?? This is basically grabbing the opponents wrist.. pulling him back to you and then punching him. Practice hooking someones wrist and pulling them into you.

    3. The sine-wave motion should be no more pronouned than it is with any other technique.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2005
  15. oni_sensei

    oni_sensei Valued Member

    Funny, I was always told that General Choi included the Heaven Hand as "just a place to start the pattern", or something along those lines.


    Now, for the W-Shape Block. From what I gather, it's meant to be a simultaneous inner forearm and outer forearm block. Honestly, I can't see that happening. Personally, I consider the arm that you're not looking at to the be the reaction arm, the one moving in the opposite direction to the blocking arm. Other than that, it's just another inward outer forearm block to me.

    Oh, I'm quite sure those blocks are high section as well.
     
  16. AussieNath

    AussieNath New Member

    All of the techniques have a practical purpose, but I love the way General Choi thought out the hyungs. Do you remember struggling with a movement from a new hyung because the previous one had programmed you to do a move a slightly different way.

    There's a lot of thought that has gone into the hyungs.

    Anyway, my point is that there is also other reasons for certain moves apart from a blocking/attacking use. Example: as mentioned in Yul Gok, personally I don't see any slow motion technique in any pattern as being amazingly practical. I think what the General was trying to do was emphasise certain moves in the hyungs and how they should be performed.

    The slow moves are great for really focussing on hip movement, stance etc. Students often have a habit of rushing through hyungs at the detriment of technique and the slow movements are great for breaking this and helping to develop rhythm.

    Just my 2 cents....
     
  17. Taliar

    Taliar Train harder!

    Blocking with "Bakat Palmok" - Outer Forearm, used to deflect an incoming straight attack, for instance high section side kick, not to stop a circular attack, (like a turning kick). Are high section, can't see that you could physically get them to be anything else and maintain correct technique.
     
  18. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member

    She is correct... when the left foot stance and the opposite hand (the right) blocks, that is a "reverse hooking block".(bandae golcho makgi)

    When we do this form we do the first palm hooking block as a tension move... very slow and then end the move with a snap. The second (reverse) palm hooking block is done slow but not as slow as the first and snaps into place.

    These hooking blocks are high defending against a forward punch with a downward block with the palm of the attackers arm and a pull downwards. Or a block to a kick or weapon.... (see attached pics for descriptions)
    However, you do not bring these blocks that far downward when performing
    ... the block remains high at a little more than shoulder level.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. KickChick

    KickChick Valued Member


    Or a defense against an attack from the side as this pic shows. Not much more offered for application in the encyclopedia.

    When I first learned this move, I thought it as a high block to defend the philtrum and above.... but couldn't "see" the application. Could very well be a strike to the temple .... no?? But what about the other blocking arm/hand? Is that merely used to generate power to only the one arm attacking or are you also blocking or attacking with it?
     

    Attached Files:

  20. Jang Bong

    Jang Bong Speak softly....big stick

    This is interesting - it looks like the section of blocking we learn in Tang Soo Do known as 'soft blocks'. This response feels very natural to me, and I was in trouble in the Karate class for 'catching' (and holding) the kickers legs :D

    We use these soft blocks both high and low. We also both left and right with each hand - i.e. pushing or pulling to each side with each hand.

    The perfect teacher of these blocks is Jennie the Yorkshire Terrier - try getting that eye-goo from the corners of her eyes, and you get a perfect demonstration of soft-blocking with both left and right paw :eek:
     

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