Why no aikidoka in the UFC?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Sc0tsg1t, May 15, 2003.

  1. Sc0tsg1t

    Sc0tsg1t New Member

    After all, surely it is the ultimate test of skill neutralising an aggressive skilled opponent with minimal force.

    By the way, I understand that wrist locks aren't allowed in submission work due to the nature of the joint but there is more to aikido than wrist locks.

    What do you lot think?

    Is it because Aikido promotes common sense? ;)

    I speak as an experienced aikidoka who is learning other disciplines. I asked this of my instructor Neil McLeod and he couldn't really give me an answer either.

    Let the debate begin :woo:
     
  2. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter

    I believe one of the rules forbids excessive avoidance.

    Col
     
  3. Sonshu

    Sonshu Buzz me on facebook

    I have to say

    I think they would get SMEAGED the reason being the style does work a lot on people moving with more movement than a skilled fighter.

    Also it has no ground fighting skills and this has been the tell tail sign in all MMA events.

    The sway was more for ground fighting and now it has gone back to striking. However a skilled stiker does not over commit as much as most Aikido styles train to defend from.

    Also they would in the most (My findings) not be fit enough to hold some 225lbs nutter off for long.

    Sorry but I guess this is how they would fair.


    SONSHU
     
  4. Sc0tsg1t

    Sc0tsg1t New Member

    Which compromises the whole style really?

    I must admit most aikidoka aren't that fit (in comparison with other styles) but surely the premise was to be able to defeat all opponents (whether skilled or unskilled) with minimal effort?

    I think a skilled aikidoka should be able to handle himself quite well. I actually remember many years ago (on an old DOS bulletin board) an aikidoka complaining that he entered a full contact freestyle tournament (where winner stayed in) and eventually got jumped by his fellow competitors after wiping people out with irimi techiques.

    Be nice to see if he could make an appearance in the UFC (or like events) and prove it again.

    on your last point about aikidoka being trained to defend against people who overcommit their attacks....is this a fault with the teaching at the school or the style?

    my money is on the former.
     
  5. pgm316

    pgm316 lifting metal

    "I must admit most aikidoka aren't that fit (in comparison with other styles) but surely the premise was to be able to defeat all opponents (whether skilled or unskilled) with minimal effort?"

    Thought the premise was to defend against attackers?

    Not to enter fighting tournaments against skilled MMA's.

    I don't believe Aikido has enough ground fighting to match the best fighters out there, nevermind beat them with minimal effort :eek:

    If its cross trained with other arts and the fighter is good enough, then maybe UFC's could be won! ;)
     
  6. Silver_no2

    Silver_no2 Avenging Angel

    I think they would get SMEAGED the reason being the style does work a lot on people moving with more movement than a skilled fighter.
    Not so. The idea that aikido would only be effective against completely untrained opponents does not really hold up. If you think about it, O Sensei was highly skilled in other martial arts, he is hardly likely to have designed an art that can only be used if your opponent is throwing huge haymaker punches at you.

    The vast majority of arts require a shift in balance by the person attacking, be it a punch, kick or close for a grapple (which is a whole other topic :D). That is what a skilled aikidoka is looking for. The idea would be to avoid the attack and then close in and take a technique, or pull on the arm, leg to disrupt the movement/technique and then work from there. Having watched several UFC type videos I have seen several instances where I thought "If I was fit enough, fast enough and good enough I could have taken a technique there." The problem for an aikidoka would be the ground work. Something that can be worked on with some cross-training - lets face it, everyone involved in these things is cross-training nowadays.

    The whole argument about fitness is irrelevent. That is nothing to do with the art and more to do with the individual. If an unfit TKD, BJJ or Kung Fu practitioner were to go into these things they would get equally as mangled. If someone was to enter a UFC style competition they would clearly get themselves into great shape. Come to our club and meet a few of our members - their fitness levels are quite impressive (FreeForm & FluffyDoc spring to mind).

    Aikido does not exclusively rely on waiting for your opponent to strike you, ask anyone who has been on the receiving end of a pre-emptive atemi waza. It can be exceptionally painful and, unsurprisingly, tends to take people unawares as they are expecting aikidoka to stand back and wait for an attack.

    I think that the main problem is that many of the aikido techniques are not allowed, excessive avoidance is not allowed, and the lack of groundwork means that it would be over when the aikidoka takes it to the ground. But then that's the whole point of cross-training.

    On a slightly different note....There is a thread called "Kicking" that I started for my hundredth post that got quite an interesting discussion going, have a read of that.

    Kicking.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2003
  7. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Freeform? Fit? For what? :D



    There's a lot of good Body Mechanics in Aikido from what I've seen of it.

    Getting a bit sick of all this, "insert art of choice" wouldn't work in a UFC competition stuff. Extremely ignorant.
    Aikido's a good art.....go train it!

    Certainly anyone who's trained in it for a while, is the best person to answer this question, so it's kind of surprising to find an Aikidoka asking it.
     
  8. morphus

    morphus Doobrey

    I think the problem with arts/ists competing in the ufc's and similar is that most arts train for a self defence situatution and the thinking behind this is that you would have to only use have to use one or two techniques, handful at the most and you'd be able to escape the confrontation.
    In competition it's technique after technique until one is the out and out winner or a winner is declared, (there's a big difference).

    Not everyone has the time to dedicate to competition training and require self defence training(some simple techniques that work). Others just want to train the artistic side or some the philosophical.
    It takes great dedication to fight in top flight competition, the two can and perhaps, should be combined even if you do not compete.

    When it comes down to it no one martial art has EVER one the UFC's with the exeption of BJJ, which trains for exactly that type of comp'. The other winners have been cross trainers. CASE IN POINT!
     
  9. shadow joe

    shadow joe seeker of truth

    the problem with UFC still, is that there are rules. Any professional fighter should be able to enter the tourney... isn't that what the Gracie's were after? They wanted a forum to pit jujitsu against the rest of the world... and now it's just another money maker, a short hair away from WWE...



    Akido is the practice of harmonizing with your opponent and literally becoming one with their energy. Someone who trains like this to perfect their body, mind, and spirit while using the energy around them isn't going to enter a tournament for money. So you'd never see the greatest akido master fighting in the UFC.


    but it is a very real art bred from jujistu and has some of my most favorite principles... A skilled practioner could compete very well i think in a MMA comp...
     
  10. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    I humbly disagree :D

    Agreed - 'cos they'd get their ass kicked.

    Again I humbly disagree. To be competitive in a MMA tounament you need a stong level in standup, clinch & ground - something a pure Aikidoka just doesn't have.
     
  11. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    I wonder if many Aikidoka have even heard of UFC let alone seen one.

    If they have, why on earth would they want to enter one?

    Aikido has it's weaknesses, as do all arts, and ALL PEOPLE!

    Asking another question;

    If an MMA fighter strong in Thai, Clinchwork and BJJ was to take up Aikido in his spare moments, would he get any benefit from it for a UFC event?

    Would he get any benefit for street defence?



    (I tried to enter my art, 'Sly Rib Chib' in the first UFC event, but they knocked me back!)
     
  12. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Beats me :D

    Of course!

    I don't believe so - no.

    I don't believe so - no.
     
  13. STASH

    STASH New Member

    Aikido just doesnt seem practical in a UFC style setting.

    Imagine someone like Vanderlai Silva coming at you...do you really think you could catch one of his strikes and take him down without getting knocked out in the process?
     
  14. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    "I'm looking for a great Aikidoka"

    "OOoooh", Yoda he say; "Aikido no make one great"

    No middle ground Dave? :(

    Allowing yourself no escape hatch?
     
  15. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    Hey Andy - I didn't say Aikido no make one great. :D

    I just don't think Aikido has much to offer a MMA athlete.
     
  16. Andy Murray

    Andy Murray Sadly passed away. Rest In Peace.

    Damn, my spoon has melted :D
     
  17. Spike

    Spike New Member

    "Hey Andy - I didn't say Aikido no make one great.

    I just don't think Aikido has much to offer a MMA athlete."

    Could you elaborate on that thinking?
     
  18. Swoop

    Swoop Valued Member

    Actually people don't enter mma competitions for money because there is very little money to be made. You could win an 8-man tournament and only leave with a few hundred pounds.

    As for aikido being useful in mma, we'll find out soon enough. I hear Steven Seagal is training someone for the UFC.
     
  19. Andrew Green

    Andrew Green Member

    UFC 1 - Winner got $50,000

    Tito got 80,000 for showing and 80,000 for winning at UFC 40. Ken Shamrock got $120,000...

    Top guys make decent money, not boxing or pro wrestling levels, but not bad.

    Seagal!?!

    I have a hard time believing that, sponsoring perhaps, but not training
     
  20. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter


    Not much to elaborate on Spike.

    Andy was talking abiout a guy who's strong in Muay Thai, clinchwork & BJJ. He asked if this same guy taking up Aikido would be of any benefit to him in the MMA ring or the street - I don't think it would.

    If you think it would - please elaborate :D
     

Share This Page