As the title says, do you think joint locks like armbars, leg locks, figure 4s, etc. have a place in a real fight as a finisher?
Of cours they do! They are one of the many tools of a rounded-fighter and can easily finish someone....if you snap a guy's arm from the elbow, i doubt they will want to fight anymore!
Yes. Can lead to a less violent end as pain stops fight, else broken limbs will definately stop fight.
In a ring/sporting arena, classroom, dojo type place (basically a controlled enviroment) ? Yes, always. Great for submissions, tap outs etc. Or in an unpredicted uncontrolled adrenaline pumping real life Self Defence scenario (Da STR33Tz) ? Not sure, wouldn't want to risk it too much, bigger arm, leg stuff yes, but i wouldn't be trying a sankyo or nikyo against a full out haymaker not knowing if it had a knife or bottle at the end of it, bigger locks yes, smaller locks no. for me anyway. But i'd want to keep my distance and keep running away an option, and don't like the idea of taking it to the ground in case there are more than one.
Yes. But in a real fight it's not a lock, it's a break. Now, do you actually have the bottle to break someones arm? It's not like hitting them, you'll put them in hospital, they'll have a cast for at least 6 weeks and remember you for the rest of their life (and not in a good way).
Not to mention consequences of the law...plus why would you need to break someones arm unless the level of force required it, (weapons/multiple assailant being two most likely scenarios imho.) Plus what if they have to rely on their arm for their job? And breaking anyones legs affects everyone in some way...I would rather see this as the exception rather than the rule.
It is possible to just use it as a lock in certain situations. In fact, that might even be the best option to de-escalate the fight.
Sure, as a security steward, or if he doesn't have mates wanting to kick you in. Actually, I've used jointlocks to use a guy as a shield between myself and his friends, so there are 'non-breakage' methods
my one fight outside of class ended in me putting a kimura on them. so yes, it can be used (and no i didnt break their arm i just held them and jerked it abit until they gave up)
It's alot easier to control the amount of damage you cause with many grabbling holds, than it is with strikes. If you want to stop someone you have to hit them hard, there is little room to use lighter strikes to warn them off. Most locks can be used to "tap out" an opponent by giving them enough pain that they want to stop.
why not? All techniques have been questioned if they either work on the str33t not. I'm against that. If you can pull off a technique correctly it will work.. Pulling off the techniques is the real problem. Even with multiple opponents dislocating an arm disables one of the attackers and scares the others a lot so they may back off.
If its self-defense then break that joint! But only if your prepared for what may happen later. Legal issues, hours with the police and if the guy finds out where you live....well....he may come up with something. But yes, like what Alex_000 says, a dangling arm or a guy screaming while holding his knee usually stops the others and rethink the situation.
On Wrist Locks in self defence Sometimes in discussions, arts like Hapkido and Aikido and such get ribbed for teaching wrist locks in self defence situations. 1. Not all self defence is going to be used against an all-out attacker punching at you. Some of it will be in response to pulls/pushes/grabs/etc., some at a slow speed. A lock or breakaway can be better (especially legally) than knocking the guy out. 2. The level of engagement varies as does the "opponent". As a "Hapkido guy", if I am jumped on a street in the dark, I will use strikes and such to hurt him/her and then run away. But if a student at my public school, a drunk friend, a family member or such attacks me... my goal is to restrain and control until help arrives or until I can defuse the situation. In some situations, you don't have the option of delivering huge amounts of destruction to a person. 3. When learning joint locks... the actual joint locking technique is important, but there are other aspects which are just as important (if not more): a. Your entry: setting up a joint lock requires you to manipulate an (unwilling) opponent. You will need to distract him/her with a strike/slap/kick/quick movement and use your footwork to set up for the lock itself. b. The lock and contingency plans: you only have a short time to put the lock on and set it for a takedown or for an escort (or for a choke out). If they slip out of, or if the you miss, you must train for the next step (e.g. wrist lock into a center lock into a hammerlock)... or for an extraction. c. extraction: This is the most important part in my mind. After you lock them up or take them down, DO NOT HELP THEM UP OR JUST "LET GO". You must "extract", either by using pressure to distance them from you as you release them (and exit) or by using strikes or breaks to incapacitate them. (Verbalization is important here as well). Wrist locks and joint locks work. But you have to use them within the context of their strengths and weaknesses and be prepared to respond to them.
Absolutely, couldn't agree more! If someone comes at me and ends up with a broken leg/arm/hand, tough luck on them. I don't think I'd put someone in a lock just to break something deliberately but if it happens in the heat of the battle then I won't lose sleep over it.
