Why the Democrats lost

WARNING: This is looooong

I don't feel sorry for the Democrats, not one bit. I wouldn't feel sorry for Bush if he lost either, he had 4 yrs to show the ppl of America what he was about and if he couldn't convince them he was the right man for the job by doing the job then he's simply unfit. But I can't feel sorry now for the Democrats since they came into an election with an unpopular president fighting an unpopular war with a very mobilised base and still lose. And I mean Democrats, not just Kerry. Republican control of the house and senate remain and I beleive have been expanded. Even Sen. Tom Daschle lost, it's unheard of for a party leader in the congress to lose. The Democrats were handed as good an oppourtunity as they'll have for the next 20 yrs or so by my predictions, and they said "No thanks, maybe later". Because at every oppourtunity they have turned their backs on the average joe democrat.

Cultural Issues
The main problem liberals have with average ppl is cultural issues. They have placed themselves on the other side of the debate and then are surprised when average Americans don't vote for them. I think the liberal view is best summed up by Thomas Frank who beleives the Republicans have "dupped" average ppl into voting for them

Here's a hint for liberals that might want to pay attention, calling ppl "hicks" does not get them running to the voting booth for you. By siding with the "artist" against the "hicks" liberals(and by association Democrats) have really given the working joe no choice but to side with Republicans. Family values didn't used to be a campaign issue, they were the same for everyone.

The next cultural issue, and the one that may have cost Kerry the election, is gay marrige. Sure John Kerry came out publicly against it, but ppl were scared enough after the liberal judges in Mass. mandated that it be made legal there that many states(including Ohio) put constitutional initiatives out there. This drew a greater number then normal of religious voters out, and they don't vote for democrats due to the next cultural issue, abortion.

The Democrats have created a party that is monolithicaly pro-choice. Considering 20-25% of their constituency is Catholic, this is not smart. As a matter of fact, many long time Democrats that I know of have switched over the the Republican party over this very issue. The fact is your average guy in Montana has a very different oppinion about abortion the the one in Manhatten, but his never heard in the Democratic party. Meanwhile the Republicans have some very prominent members who are pro-choice.


Foreign Policy
Another reason the Democrats lost this election(possibly the main one) is foreign policy. The problem is they think that Republicans win on policy bc they nominate war heroes and have a bunch of flags waving in the background. That's why this year they nominated a war hero and made sure to always have flags waving in the background. But since 1980 Republicans have only nominated 2 war heros, Bush Sr. and Dole and they both lost. The fact is that Republicans win on foreign policy bc they have better(or at the very least more popular) ideas.

The U.N. for example. If you ask the average American what he thinks about us going to war in Iraq you'll get mixed reviews. If you ask what they think about the U.N.'s claim we can't do it without their authority and you'll overwhelmingly get support for the idea of telling that over priced debating club to shove it. That goes directly against the Democratic premise of an international litmus test.

And the policy of pre-emptive strikes is very popular with the average American. It just makes sense that if you percieve a country to be a threat you hit them before they build up the capacity to hit you. Such a policy would have stoped WW2 and might have stoped communism. Plus, we like bombing stuff, it's a bit of a hobby of ours

Domestic Policy
This is generaly considered the Democrats main territory, but due to demographic changes and miscalculations on their part the liberal policies in this area are not so popular any more. Firstly, raising taxes on the rich is becoming less popular as more ppl become richer. 100k a year seemed like a lot but now most any 2 income college educated couple would be in the group that has their tax break rolled back by the Kerry plan. Secondly, as 60% of Americans now own stock tariffs and other anti-bussiness policies are seen as much more imediatly harmful and therefor something to vote against. But the 2 biggest blunders of the Democratic party on domestic issues are health care and social security.

Health care is a tricky one and I don't blame Democrats so much for being wrong on this. But the problem is they ask the wrong question, they ask "Should everyone have access to health care?". Well, of course anyone is going to say yes. What they don't ask is "How much are you willing to pay for everyone to have access to health care?". You get a very different answer. That's why it went no where under Clinton and got Kerry no traction, no one wants to pay for it and no one beleives the money will come from only the "rich" as is promised. Average joes can't afford to pay for the health care of everyone else.

Social security may yet due the Dems in however, their pandering to the wrong group. Their pandering to the elderly bc they vote heavily, but they should be with the Republicans pandering to the youth who are going to have to pay for the boomers retirements. Instead they try to scare ppl by talking about "risky" private investment and then are suprised when no one is scared. The fact is that 60% of ppl already have stocks and investments as part of their retirement plan and that number goes way up as your target group gets younger. The ppl who will still be around to vote in 20 yrs aren't afraid of private investment, their afraid the government wont be able to afford to pay them back. Average joe's can't afford to give up 10% of their salary for life and get nothing in return.

 

The democrats lost because the country is full of idiots and religious freaks.

I hope this country goes down the pooper. We deserve it. The youth of the nation deserves to get drafted and sent off to war. The seniors deserve to have crappy health coverage, and those graduating college deserve to have trouble finding jobs. The women deserve to have their right to chose taken away....this country is a joke, along with the majority of its citizens.

 

*shudder* You know, I've never felt so glad that I don't live in the states as I was when the whole gay marriage debate came about.

Strict Catholics scare me. One religious nut I was talking to in America once actually began to try and exorcise me because I was making him doubt his religion, so evidently I must have been an emissary from Satan.

 

I am a Canadian , I have not been involved in any of these presidential threads on MAP. It is over...those of you whose candidates were victorious please accept it with grace and class. Those of you whose candidates lost - get your noses to the grindstone and try to change things for next time.

Getting upset and degenerating these threads to the level of the mudslinging that the candidates called campaigning will only serve to foster bitterness and resentment.

Sorry, I have held my tongue too long and it was driving me crazy. I like and respect the people who have been posting on these threads...how about we now let this rest and get on with other things?

 

If this thread gets confrontational its going to get locked. No rubbing noses, no whining, no name calling, no 'you lost get over it'. Lets get back to martial arts, the reason for this site. No telling how much bandwidth we've wasted arguing politics.

 

you might want to lock it now kwaj...or throw me in the bin...because confrontation is going to happen while im still allowed to post on this here.

 

Duuhhhhhhaaaaaaaa your gonna go to hell talkin like that..........

 

The truth hurts...if telling the truth sends someone to hell, bush , cheney , rice and the rest of that administration is deffinitely going to heaven.

 

Now that the election is over, can I hope we never see an election thread for another 4 years.

 

Dunno Gasman, do we have elections in the UK? I've never really paid enough attention to notice...

 

Thanks Tika, I forgot another reason for the decline of liberalism in America. That's "Chicken Little Syndrom". The constant threats that if we don't vote the way you want the whole country will colapse. It was effective once, but history has proven these claims wrong too many times

• Every 5 yrs since the 1960s someone comes out and tells us we're going to run out of oil in 10 yrs. It hasn't happend and any economist can tell you why.
• Ever since the 1980s we've been told that global warming was going to flood the world in the next 10 yrs. Here in michigan we are still waiting desperatly for some sunshine and new beaches.
• Ever since the middle of Reagans term we've been told the deficit was going to consume any hope our children have of having a decent economy. We've successfuly outgrown it for the most part and have felt few or no negative economic consequences.
• When welfare was reformed in the mid 90s it was warned that women and children would be left begging in the streets when it turned out to be an uprecidented success.

And now you say all those horrible things will happen with W in office again.....I think I'll take my chances.





And for the mods threatening to close all these threads, I wish you wouldn't. This is the off topic area, it would seem a bit odd if we could start threads about all those goofy topics but not discuss anything of any import simply bc ppl care about them.

 

i actually thougt the origianl post was really good. well done whaledawg2 !

 

Hey Tika , you could always move out of the country you so very bad mouthed. those "idiots" to live in it happily. Then we're all happy You hope this country goes down the pooper? Niiiiice!

 

Bayani, she's already said that's exactly what she intends to do. As for them living in it happily, if America is that set again something as simple as gay marriage, or giving women a choice about abortion, I wouldn't really want to live there either.

 

An interesting post whaledawg2. I think Tika might have a point to about religious people. The impression I get (mostly from the British media so it's probably wrong) is that America has masses of fundimentalist christians who all view Bush as some kind of prophet? If it's true it would undermine the entire democratic process, but it would certainly add to the list of reasons why Bush got voted in.

 

Thank you.

 

It's not baiting, they did lose and I present what I consider a rational discusion of why. It's meant to be a window into the mind of an average American and how that differs from the mind of the average democrat. That's only an attack if your convinced your a populist, and if your convinced that your a populist and you disagree with average ppl then your wrong. I know there are plenty of concepts and topics that I disagree with most ppl on, and I see nothing wrong with that.

I hoped that liberals could learn exactly where and why others disagreed with them this election season, and I wouldn't mind if someone put out a similar thread on conservatives. In fact I'd enjoy it.

 

I'd be inclined to agree with you, but you can't be right. I don't think half the people in the US can actively choose to be destroyed. They simply have different ideals than you. What you need to do is work with them. Isn't that the spirit of Democracy?

As for the mods who want to close the thread. Go ahead ... make my day

 

The states isn't a democracy, its a republic. The electoral college renders the minority vote pretty much irrelevant. From what I've gathered if you won, say, ohio by one single vote you'd still get all twenty of the electoral college votes. A closer step to a democracy would be that you get a percentage equal to your support percentage, and the rest goes to the other parties as appropriate.