Three Family Fist

In reply to the locked thread where a poster alludes to an art being made up by one particular individual, and that those shown on the art's history do not exist because they are unavailable to web searches.

1) Three Family Fist or Boxing (San Chia Ch'uan) has a documented history going back to approximately 1973 in the UK. It was put together, or 'made up' if you will, by three individuals, one English and two Chinese, all of which had studied other martial arts. The histories of those arts drawn from to put the art together are also documented and readily available. For instance, for one of those arts, do a search for 'Chee Soo', or 'Feng Shou' or 'Fung Sao' and one will gather a great deal of information.
The English gentleman mentioned above, also, sat on the British Kung Fu Council.
Throughout the years there have been many clubs and classes teaching this system around the UK. During the late eighties/early nineties the art was well represented at major tournaments throughout the UK, both in semi-contact and forms competition. The art held three or four major tournaments in Norfolk attracting many of the large styles and clubs of that time.
At this present moment in time, the only classes are in Norfolk, headed by the gentleman mentioned as being the individual who 'made it all up'. Which clearly, is not true.
This art/style is as old, for instance, as Jeremy Yau's Lau Gar in the UK.
I am fairly sure that the individuals who are still alive and kicking shown on the lineage/history page of the website referred to, would be less than happy to learn that they do not exist

2) Web search availability is no indication of real and/or not real, pertaining to teachers or martial arts or many other things for that matter. I have trained with real Chinese masters, who do not advertise to some of their friends that they are documented lineage holders of real traditional Chinese martial arts, let alone make themselves available on the web. Some, now very well known, martial arts teachers, used to train and teach in other peoples front rooms amongst other places, known only amongst their students.
I have on the other hand seen websites that advertise video black belt courses and worse. Take your pick, but do not assume that, as individuals do not come up from search engines, that they do not exist. It is silly at best.

3) Slightly on a tangent, but although I see why the thread that was locked, may have needed to be. I note that the blame was not entirely fair. Also, as well as quote boxes, the last time I looked at the English language, these marks " " indicated a quote, but there, I am being pedantic.

 

yes they are...and yes you are.

 

Ninestep you said 'Throughout the years there have been many clubs and classes teaching this system around the UK'

Have you any proof of this?? has anyone else heard of this gungfu being taught outside Norfolk where this mark cook lives?

Anyone other than Ninestep ever heard of these 'masters' who were supposed to have taught mark cook?

Angelos Fassois, 6th Level* (Eagle Claw, Wushu, Escrima) E.K.F.A. Founder

OR

Stephen Lofthouse, 4th Level

I doubt we will get many replies hey ninestep

 

handofdef : "Have you any proof of this??"

Yes, I do.

"has anyone else heard of this gungfu being taught outside Norfolk where this mark cook lives?"

Amongst others, the MAC (Martial Arts Commission) and BKFC (British Kung Fu Council), the AMA (Amateur Martial Association), the UKASKFA (United Kingdom All Styles Kung Fu Association), the FSKA (Freestyle Karate Association) have all heard of this system. Please note that some of the above mentioned organisations are now defunct, or became the current organisations in the UK, and also I did post, 'throughout the years', it is true to say it is not so anymore, and all the classes these days as far as I know are within Norfolk.

"Anyone other than Ninestep ever heard of these 'masters' who were supposed to have taught mark cook?"

Well, :-

Bob Stannells is very well known, check it out yourself, do some research. if you find this difficult, let me know and I will supply you some information.

Alan Smith, who retired from teaching many years ago, held a third degree Black Sash with and was one of, Chee Soo's (of Feng Sau) top instructors. He travelled to America and learnt the Lung Shou Pai system (look it up).

Steve Lofthouse taught this system amongst others, 30 years ago. He taught classes in Kings Lynn, Yarmouth, Norwich, Dereham, Swaffham, North London, Bristol, Birmingham and Manchester. He also held Dan grades in Judo and Japanese Jujitsu. The system, in its 'heyday' had approx 150 plus students.
I have no idea how many there are now.

I have no information for Angelos Fassois.

"I doubt we will get many replies hey ninestep"

If you wish, I can get many people to reply on here, including some of the above. I personally now of about 30 people, who have been involved and trained in this system over the years, including some who still do.
I somehow doubt, that this will 'appease' you however. If you live in Norfolk I can easily arrange for you to meet up with some of the old school guys if you sincerely wish too.

 

However it is usually the quickest and easiest method. The great majority of arts or styles are documented online, at least in magazine articles or similar, and often any art that has competed in or held a tournament will have its results online. If someone does not publicise their art, and keeps it quiet and secret, then it shouldn't come as much of a suprise when people doing a cursory search assume its an extremely small art, or even doesn't exist.

Not much help really, as its not difficult to set up multiple accounts. However do you know if there is currently a school of this art in Norwich, as I'll be up there this weekend and am planning to eventually move up there. I'll be looking for new schools to join when I get up there.

Right, lets play the pedantic game shall we? I'm good at this. Basically if you can understand a post there's not really any need to pick at it. There's quite a few things I could nit-pick in yours, but I'll leave them be.

 

lilbunnyrabbit :- "However it is usually the quickest and easiest method. The great majority of arts or styles are documented online, at least in magazine articles or similar, and often any art that has competed in or held a tournament will have its results online. If someone does not publicise their art, and keeps it quiet and secret, then it shouldn't come as much of a suprise when people doing a cursory search assume its an extremely small art, or even doesn't exist."

I don't agree with all your points. I'm could name some martial arts that have 'existed' over the years that I have been involved in the arts that do not have any web presence at all, doesn't necessarily mean they do not exist, although I take your point that a cursory search may bring someone to that conclusion.
Plus, the poster (handofdef) was alluding to the current website of the art in question, which (having just read it all) carries information about all the above that you mention. Bob Stannells has a website now, but did not for years (although having tried to access it today it is down).

"Not much help really, as its not difficult to set up multiple accounts. However do you know if there is currently a school of this art in Norwich, as I'll be up there this weekend and am planning to eventually move up there. I'll be looking for new schools to join when I get up there."

Your cursory assumption of deception is not taken well sir.

I know many schools and classes of martial arts in and around Norwich. What is it in particular that you may be interested in?

The website that has been mentioned gives the information quite clearly as to the current schools of the art under scrutiny.

"Right, lets play the pedantic game shall we?"

I am not playing games sir, this is a public forum and you and I both are permitted to air our opinions, yes?

"Basically if you can understand a post there's not really any need to pick at it."

Thats subjective, and you and I, again, differ with our opinion.

"There's quite a few things I could nit-pick in yours, but I'll leave them be."

My post where I state quite clearly that I am being pedantic was not issued as a challenge.

In summary, I am afraid that I find your post to be rather superior and argumentative and I can't really understand why this is so. I posted information in reply to an untruth, and have attempted to back up that information in so far as I can at this time. Thats all.

 

stop bickering girls...

lets try and stick to the thread topic.

 

I have heard of these HandofDef!

One here!

 

I didn't say it meant that they didn't exist, I said that I could understand someone assuming that the art doesn't exist.

The other thing is when doing such a search I tend not to look for the website of that particular art, but references to it. If the art was once as well known as you said I'd be suprised if there wasn't at least a reference to it in some article published online.

I do apologise most sincerely my dear sir, its simply that I'm a skeptic. Unless I see hard and factual evidence in front of my I find it difficult to believe things, and yes, I'm also a cynic, I assume the worst. It was in particular the art that you're talking about as I was intending to try and pay a visit, chat to the instructor, and post the result on here.

To be honest it was partly because I was irritated by certain of your comments, such as the pedantic one about the quotes. Yes, everyone's aware that quotation marks are used to mark quotes, suprisingly enough. The reason for using the boxes is because its easier to spot in a long post. As well as that the comment about arranging a meet with some of the old school guys to 'appease' someone seemed mildly threatening. Probably my paranoia kicking in though. Apologies for my tone, however the points still stand.

 

Lilbunnyrabbit, thank you for your post. If you let me know what type of art you may be looking for in Norwich I may well be able to help you find it/them.


Greyghost, I am not a girl and neither is lilbunnyrabbit judging by his profile, we were sticking to the thread topic, the thread topic that I posted. I have to say that I do not understand the necessity for the schoolteacher type remarks from you, there was and is simply no need, moderator or not.

 

hello guys
first of all,thankyou ninestep,for agrreing with myself.
the above mentioned 'handofdef' is obviously hell bent on upsetting people.as you may have seen i train in san chia chuan or three family fist kung fu,have done for 6 years and now hold a black belt and instruct on a regular basis.so maybe ask me on matters of this nature or ask my instructor?
i have seen that rather than be open to comment,'handofdef' just seems to want to personally attack people then rubbish the art that they practise.
it was brought into dispute that the lineage of our system is suspect??? if anyone would like to check it out the website is www.sanchiachuan.com you will have to open this file rather than search for it,the lineage is on there.also some pics from a recent competition we attended.
ok next point! i think a lot of people on the lineage do exist as i am one of them,i train with about 5 or 6 of the others on there,i have met steve lofthouse on numerous occasions and have been trained/training with around 10 or 11 other members.the lineage only shows people of a level of black sash first level or above.also angeloss is coming over soon so will post some pics to prove he is real...hahahahaha
it really is hard to train with him as he lives in greece!!!!
handofdef has been told by myself that i would like to know where he trains and in what because i cant find if its wing chun or clf??i would like to see him/her train as he is obviously the martial arts master to end all masters,he must be to post that everyone else knows nothing!!!!

 

hi hand of death or def this is mark cook and i can tell you this that unlike you i have trained for the last twenty five years and have obtained dan grades in as many styles as you have brain cells, you say that you have trained with me well tell me your name,try typing in msn search bob stannells,
my schools are run by my blackbelts at the schools on the web site you are welcome to train at any of them, but i wolud prefer you came to see me then i can tell you evry thing you think you know about my system.please respond asap
yours in the martial arts
Mark Cook head of the three family kung fu Assc.

 

hi ninestep this is mark cook i must know you because of the knowledge you have of the heaven and thunder fist system? if your in norwich please come and meet up it would be great to talk to some one who knows of the old days of dereham, kyngs lynn,swaffham, norwich and march , please contact me through martial arts planet.
yours in the martial arts
Mark Cook.

 

hi tcd fighter do you train in norwich? what style do you do?

 

hi lil bunny rabit there are over 70 clubs in norfolk teaching various martial arts ranging from aikido to escrima to hapkido to kuk sool won ju jitsu etc etc i know this because i used to be the biggest supplier of martial arts equipment in east anglia (marks martial arts) so i know most of the instrutors as friends and customers past. also i have trained with most and promoted thier systems in my full time 2800sq feet gym give me an e mail and i will help you find a school to train at unlike others i hold unbiased opion on other style but leave it to the individual to choose because not all arts suit everyone
yours in the martial arts
Mark Cook

 

So it seems the only information availible on this 3 family fist, made up by 3 guys kung fu, is on your own website
and dont try and bring Bob stannells (only guy listed on their lineage you might be able to find on a websearch) into this he is listed on your site as a white crane practioner and I doubt has ever heard of 3 family fist!

When ninestep wrote 'Throughout the years there have been many clubs and classes teaching this system around the UK'

What he actually should have said as quoted by sifucookie
'dereham, kyngs lynn,swaffham, norwich and march'

Which can hardly be referred to as 'around the uk' when all these places are in Norfolk!

Ninestep you also mention 'MAC (Martial Arts Commission) and BKFC (British Kung Fu Council), the AMA (Amateur Martial Association), the UKASKFA (United Kingdom All Styles Kung Fu Association), the FSKA (Freestyle Karate Association) have all heard of this system. Please note that some of the above mentioned organisations are now defunct'

You do realise anyone can start up one of these commisions/councils or just look in any ma magazine and your see no end you can sign up for, for a few quid a year. I would imagine ninestep is correct though in stating some of these questionable groups are now defunct!

Finally noone from this 3 family fist has still explained why they are taught funny kungfu moves and steps but then they aspire to do kickboxing at an advanced level
Do you not have any faith in this 3 family fist? is kickboxing superior to your kungfu?
Also whats with the wushu style weapons forms you perform, you do know wushu is just for performance right ?

 

again maybe you should try and find more information on the system ie use your brain before you comment on a style.
strange kung fu moves??????why strange?dont seem strange to me?why perfom wushu sets,why not?why do wushu guys do this,would it be to get better by practice?
as stated before tell us your name and what you train in,we would love to see that!

 

I believe HandofDef is an Autodefence practitioner! Reiyukai centre!

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11903&page=3&pp=15

This thread is a good read!

 

handofdef : "You do realise anyone can start up one of these commisions/councils or just look in any ma magazine and your see no end you can sign up for, for a few quid a year. I would imagine ninestep is correct though in stating some of these questionable groups are now defunct!"


None of the groups that I mentioned are/were 'questionable'. You are obviously a young man as you do not have any knowledge of such groups as the Martial Arts Commission or the British Kung Fu Council.

Of course you are correct in that anyone can start up pretty much anything in the martial arts world of today and by extension, this has always been true.


handofdef : "and dont try and bring Bob stannells (only guy listed on their lineage you might be able to find on a websearch) into this he is listed on your site as a white crane practioner and I doubt has ever heard of 3 family fist!"

I can assure you that Bob Stannells has heard of Three Family Fist. He trained with and taught members and instructors of the system literally more times then I could count on my fingers and toes. He stayed with Steve Lofthouse on the occasions he visited Norfolk and Steve stayed with him when he reciprocated. Bob Stannells also taught Lion Dance including all the instruments which the club then performed on several occasions including traditional dances for Chinese residents of Yarmouth. He also holds rank in the system. I have in my possesion video of Bob Stannells teaching both Steve Lofthouse and Mark Cook from years ago.

handofdef : "What he actually should have said as quoted by sifucookie
'dereham, kyngs lynn,swaffham, norwich and march'
Which can hardly be referred to as 'around the uk' when all these places are in Norfolk!"

Please re-read MY post.

handofdef : "Also whats with the wushu style weapons forms you perform, you do know wushu is just for performance right ?"

Excellent example of an oxymoron, well done.

 

sifucookie : "hi ninestep this is mark cook i must know you..."

Check your e-mail!!