TKD and ground fighting.

[Taeho]

My instructor pointed out that one of the most common misconceptions about Taekwondo is that if you get us on the ground, it's over.

So, last night we devoted an entire class on Taekwondo ground fighting. We concentrated on Taekwondo techniques which could still be performed from an "on ground" position.

A little history on myself: I was a high school wrestler. I didn't compete (parents would not let), but was an avid in school participant. This was 18+ years ago.

In class last night, I discovered something, I was unbeatable in an on ground situation. The combination of my Taekwondo training and wrestling skills, which I have not used in nearly 20 years, have made a pretty good combination. My instructor immediately notice that I was a wrestler and pointed it out to the class.

The whole point of this post?

My question to you, as a Taekwondo practitioner is:

Does your club teach on ground fighting techniques in combination with Taekwondo?

Or have you "outsourced" your on ground fighting training to other art forms?

TKDshane

[kcatcher]

Are you sure that your instructor's groundfighting techniques are...
a. Credible in the wider context of grappling and/or SD
b. Not outsourced
c. Part of TKD as in the 'official' form

As a side note, I have never seen credible groundfightinmg in any TKD club that I've trained at with the exception of a guy who also trained BJJ (the source of his SD groundfighting).

[Taeho]

Originally Posted by kcatcher

Are you sure that your instructor's groundfighting techniques are...
a. Credible in the wider context of grappling and/or SD
b. Not outsourced
c. Part of TKD as in the 'official' form

This is my point. Groundfighting is not officially part of the TKD corriculum, but my instructor found it important enough to include it. Mostly he showed us that there are many techniques that can be incorporated. He also stressed the need to include this type of fight training to make us well rounded street fighter, especially with the belief that TKD fighters are "aerial" fighters only.

[cjw314]

I just spoke w/ my instructor re: this last night, and he showed me, briefly, two kicking defensive techs 'for groundfighting'. I wouldn't call them groundfighting, as such, as in my mind I imagine grappling/wrestling as groundfighting, but if someone comes at you, and you're on the ground - without being 'mounted', that is - then they seemed effective enough.

I asked if they were 'TKD' or some adaptation of Kyosahnim's 'what will work' style - and he said TKD, but not something I'll be learning soon, as I'm a whitey.

[angry]

I was taught tkd which included both aspects of yudo (judo) and hapkido as part of the normal training. My brother earned a brown belt in judo back in 1990 and his training throw wise was very similar to mine! Master Lee learnt these skills in the 50's and has been teaching this way in Australia for over 30 years. I have always considered his methods as traditional tkd and have no reason not to think that it isn't. You could say that because he learnt a lot of his skills prior to the naming of tkd he teaches something else but then all the older koreans do!

Much of what is perceived about each individual art is only a part of it's whole. I think that the final truth we all need to except is that all martial arts are just that "studying of fighting!" Individuals guide and focus their arts towards their strengths or to cover weaknesses and over many years things have become quite diverse. We cannot say that we train in a martial art and blindly miss areas of fighting that we should at least consider as possible methods of attack.

Tonight (last night actually its late) I spent nearly the entire class teaching one technique. The students didn't know that it was only one as I showed several variations of it but simply it was a block or defence against one hand grab into a wrist lock than a hip throw. This I teach all as tae kwon do as it is as I was taught. None of my students would question that fact as they are more concerned with learning than quibbling over what is true tkd and what is something else.

[carlos]

True TKD? Surely that is the TKD that you practice and believe in?

SD groundfighting - I have never been taught anything that would come in useful in a "street" application. The problem that I had with it is this - because it was something new, my training partner was being very soft and pliable - this would not happen in a "street" situation. Your opponent will be moving around and trying to smash you in. They won't lie there and take what you dish out.

Yet when I struggled against him - he got very mardy with me.

If you want specialist groundfighing, go to a specialist in groundfighting. If you want stand up fighting - do the same.

[kcatcher]

Originally Posted by carlos

True TKD? Surely that is the TKD that you practice and believe in?

SD groundfighting - I have never been taught anything that would come in useful in a "street" application. The problem that I had with it is this - because it was something new, my training partner was being very soft and pliable - this would not happen in a "street" situation. Your opponent will be moving around and trying to smash you in. They won't lie there and take what you dish out.

Yet when I struggled against him - he got very mardy with me.

If you want specialist groundfighing, go to a specialist in groundfighting. If you want stand up fighting - do the same.

So you're saying that if you want SD don't go to TKD?

[KickChick]

here we go~~

Does your club teach on ground fighting techniques in combination with Taekwondo?

If it doesn't you NEED to cross train simple as that.

More important for me personally is that I learned rape defense techniques from the ground as you won't find that covered in most martial art styles now do you? You should equip yourself with all the necessary defenses that you will more than likely use.
I don't feel it appropriate for me to learn how to streetfight any more than the average guy need to learn how to escape from being raped.

[Zen TKD Warrior]

Ground fighting was one aspeect of TKD that led me away from it. Not doing any - to put a point on it. Way back when I was a green belt, my instructor wanted to give a demo of how hard it would be for a person to escape from someone who had you in "The Mounted" poistion. I layed on the floor. He got the mount. The class watched. He said "Now, try to get out." I bucked him up, and escaped out the back door. As I stood up, he, still on the floor and red faced, looked at me and asked, "How did you do that?"

We didn't do ground fighting again until I was well in the black belt stages.

Another time, another instructor and I were talking about an upcoming Pride fight. Told him I had several highlight clips downloaded from Sherdog.com. He asked if I could burn a disc for him. Later that week brought him the disc. A day later, at class again, my head instructor goes into a rant about how TKD is the bomb and how he could take any BJJ guy or MMA guy. Then he said, "If anyone here thinks they can take me on using BJJ or anything else they need to step up now." He looked at me the whole time. That was the day I decided I needed to look for another school.

In conclusion, no, TKD has no ground game and most instructors in TKD - at least my old org. - don't know and won't train you in it.

[jasonservis]

we have been training recently in the advanced class jujuitsu. that way on the street if you get on the ground you wont get lost there either.

[carlos]

Originally Posted by kcatcher

So you're saying that if you want SD don't go to TKD?

No.

If you want SD, go to any martial art and think about the application of the techniques.

If you want groundfighting, go somewhere that specialises in it.

If you want stand up fighting, go somewhere that specialises in it.

Why learn 100 techniques for 1 defence. Why not learn 1 techniqe and do it 100 times. Specialisation and training is the way.

[dynamic_energy]

My club teach us basic SD, but not ground fighting. As i know that ground fighting is very important, so i train BJJ.. ground fighting is very important..

[megk]

Originally Posted by KickChick

here we go~~




If it doesn't you NEED to cross train simple as that.

More important for me personally is that I learned rape defense techniques from the ground as you won't find that covered in most martial art styles now do you? You should equip yourself with all the necessary defenses that you will more than likely use.
I don't feel it appropriate for me to learn how to streetfight any more than the average guy need to learn how to escape from being raped.

I totally agree, I too am training in TKD for several reasons, one of which is that I need to know how to handle myself in any situation. I am learning ground techniques as a red belt because if I am attacked and knocked down I need to know how to prevent a man from getting on me, and I need to know how to get a man off of me if he manages to get that far. I also need to know how to street fight because my goal is to be aware of my sorroundings and face an attacker rather then be jumped.

[Taeho]

Yes, being an effective ground fighter or grapler is very important in SD. As I said, before, my high school wrestling experience has helped me alot in my all around SD.

Cross training is important. I personally don't beleive that there is any single art which will protect you in all situations. You need to be versed in many forms to be a well rounded fighter.

TKDshane

[notquitedead]

Originally Posted by carlos

Why learn 100 techniques for 1 defence. Why not learn 1 techniqe and do it 100 times. Specialisation and training is the way.

The funny thing is that if you go and try to "specialize", then most of the styles you will try to learn will teach you many techniques instead of teaching you a few good ones and making you work on those. It's mostly the styles that don't specialize in one range/phase that teach you a few useful things and then make you practice those a lot (ie RBSD styles, MMA, etc).