Greatest contribution to MA--Western or Eastern cultures?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Cross_Trainer, Sep 26, 2004.

  1. Cross_Trainer

    Cross_Trainer Valued Member

    The West has virtually invented modern physical fitness, weight training, plyometrics, and so on. It has also invented boxing (almost an ideal hand art), wrestling, and savate. It has approached MA more 'scientifically' than its eastern counterparts had for centuries--although of course recently they have caught up.

    On the other hand, the Eastern martial arts read as almost a who's who of MA styles--Muay Thai, Jujitsu, Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Judo, and so on.

    So, although I realize that both are extremely important and interdependent contributions to the MA world, whose has been greater? Has there been any single nation that has made the greatest contributions? Comments?
     
  2. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Neither

    Nope
     
  3. slideyfoot

    slideyfoot Co-Founder of Artemis BJJ

    Confusing - I'm sure this thread was longer, and thought I'd already posted in it? Meh.

    Anyway, point I made in mysteriously disappeared post (or has the same thread appeared twice? :confused: ) was that Japan pioneered MMA events in modern times, and has also produced numerous highly proficient pro-fighters.

    People often make the mistake that West = modern and scientific, while East = ancient and mystical.
     
  4. gedhab

    gedhab Valued Member

    the east has made the biggest and most important contribution....the sheer diversity and extent of arts and styles/concepts in the east is phenomenal!
     
  5. Combatant

    Combatant Monsiour Fitness himself.

    And,
    East: wise and philosophical
    West: thugs :D
     
  6. slideyfoot

    slideyfoot Co-Founder of Artemis BJJ

    I think its more a case of visibility rather than anywhere being more productive in martial arts terms than anywhere else. There are numerous styles in the West that are either little-known, or have died out due to obsolescence - for example, regional wrestling styles in Northern England or the myriad of martial arts associated with the knightly orders of Europe.

    For many, the styles of 'the East' are simply more exotic and therefore more interesting, drawing on the same 'mystique' that numerous charlatans use for their own profit - for example, the false 'gurus' who exploit the 'spiritual' reputation of countries like India (yes, you look very spiritual with your fleet of private jets :rolleyes: ).


    edit: Ah, now I understand why I got confused - same thread, different board. ;)
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2004
  7. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    I think Slideyfoot just hit a lot of the high points. Besides, the "most important contribution" is going to depend entirely on your personal priorities. And even then, it's going to be open to debate.

    For example, you say "fighting effectiveness." Then we get into a debate about what constitutes fighting effectiveness. And we hurl examples at one another. Etc.

    Personally, I like most of the contributions. It's all good.


    Stuart
     
  8. HearWa

    HearWa Ow, that hurt...

    Generally speaking, that's so true. We are such a young nation. We are vain enough to listen to thirteen year old pop stars and rappers and take their words to heart (and pay them too much money for doing so) while calling our elders with real life experience foolish and locking them away...

    We should be giving our money to the people who are building our nation: doctors, educators, etc., not a bunch of spoiled brats! :woo:

    Somebody needs to spank those immoral children-rappers! :woo: :woo: :woo: :woo:
     
  9. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    the west isnt just america you know.
     
  10. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    *Gasp! :eek:
     
  11. Freeform

    Freeform Fully operational War-Pig Supporter


    America is just that young loud country, it'll learn to listen more and be a bit quieter once it's gotten through puberty. ;)

    Col
     
  12. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I like to share this movie quote from 'Drive' starring Mark Dacascos and Kadeem Hardison.

    Kadeem : So whats it like in China? Over here when we think about the East, we think its full of people with little tiny feet kicking the crap out of each other everyday.

    Mark : Well we more or less got the same opinion as you guys, except you got big feet and kill each other less gracefully

    Kadeem : Ok, I can see that.....


    :D:D
    hehehe
     
  13. slideyfoot

    slideyfoot Co-Founder of Artemis BJJ

    I'm sure there was something about 'your kung-fu is weak!' in that quote - haven't seen Drive in a while though. :)
     
  14. Nrv4evr

    Nrv4evr New Member

    Eastern culture created it, Western expanded it, adding everything they could possibly add, whittling every move to an exact science. Yet, the Eastern Hemisphere still wins a majority of the tournaments, like Great Britain - Karate, Japan/Korea - Judo and TKD. (If you count Europe and Britain as Eastern.)

    Eastern culture, in the end, started MA, or at least the developed system. Fighting with your fists without any sort of proper training DOES NOT count as MA, that's just called swinging your fists. IMHO, I think Eastern has made the greatest contribution.
     
  15. slideyfoot

    slideyfoot Co-Founder of Artemis BJJ

    What makes you think Eastern culture created it? Visibility, like I said - there are records of wrestling in Egypt and Ancient Greece that far outdate anything found in the 'East', depending on how you define that.
     
  16. Ikken Hisatsu

    Ikken Hisatsu New Member

    boxing and wrestling have been around a LOT longer than any other martial arts. like slidey said, the records of boxing and wrestling in ancient western cultures such as greece show a much more extensive history than any purely asian martial art.

    as for countries making the biggest contribution- japan and brazil (one from each, who woulda thunk it) for their pioneering of tried and tested martial arts.
     
  17. Franki

    Franki New Member

    All of a sudden Brazil is a major player because the Gracies extended judo and wrestling? Early on BJJ had a huge surprise advantage, because grappling was not considered as an integral part of NHB fighting. Thus the real accomplishment of the Gracies is that they fueled this cross-training fad you see today. As for the biggest contributors besides Japan, I'd rate at least China and USA ahead of Brazil.
     
  18. slideyfoot

    slideyfoot Co-Founder of Artemis BJJ

    Fad? People have been cross-training and doing mixed martial arts (two related but distinctly different things) for centuries - millenia even. Pankration is over 2,700 years old.
     
  19. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Pfft. Those crazy kids will have forgotten all about it in a millenia or so.
     
  20. Franki

    Franki New Member

    I didn't say cross-training was invented by the Gracies, I said they caused an explosion in the popularity of it. So yes - fad.
     

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