I study Isshinryu karate and had the interesting experience of having a more "traditional" sensei attend class last night. It was very different than the relaxed tone that our usual sensei's take. I even heard a few Osu! - which has never happened in our dojo before. I was just curious if there are still many of the "old school" sensei's out there that demand "osu"and straight lines and identical kata. In our school things such as kata are given quite a bit of latitude as long as the technique is proper and you have a good explanation for why you do it a certain way. I was just curious as a lot of the bashing that TMA's suffer is based on the old, out dated stereotype of lines of clones all punching and kicking in unison with some wizened old man being worshipped as their leader. How many of you, who although still study traditional styles, are encouraged to cross-train, have instructors from other styles come in or have sensei's who have a very modern approach to training methods and techniques? Is the stereotype still valid or is the bashing based on Hollywood versions of TMA and people with ax's to grind?
Well I guess I train in the middle, OSU is not heard but when doing KATA there is the right way only. The BUNKAI - explanation can vary but the movements must stay the same. when drilling uniform lines are not required we just make sure to have enough room as to not hit each other. Cross training is always allowed, however my instructor wishs you to be very good at the technique before sharing. Do not go to a seminar where you have done the technique 4 or 5 times and expect to explain the proper way to perform it.
I also study Isshinryu. We have had "traditional" Senseis teach for a night before and thats how they were. My Sensei tells us that our kata is our own and we will develop differences in our katas over time to what suits us best. But when we learn he likes for everyone to learn the same way so that it is not confusing. Sensei even has Grandmaster Little watch his katas to make sure that we are on the same page with him. So it is neat to see how the different regions have different twists on their katas. My Sensei thinks that we should cross train. That is why he also teaches Thai boxing, Shingitai Jujitsu, Isshinryu, and some Judo so that we are well rounded. He also is very down to earth and understands that anyone can be beaten at any time so it is better to have as many weapons in your arsenal that you can use when needed. He also understands that the times have changed and so has the ways of the streets. Now days you can get shot as easily as you could get in a fist fight back then. Am I being to general on my answer? If so please tell me and I will go into more detail. I am just on break before my next class and trying to do this as fast as possible.
For a traditional dojo in Japan, it is very, very lucky for me to be allowed to cross train. I've done almost every effectively proven MA, and I hope to do a bit of Lethwei, too. My sensei still believes in proper kata, however, but if your technique is sound, and you can explain your differences, he finds loopholes in the book.
This actually sounds a lot like our club. The basic moves and technique have to be the same but if your timing or flow is a little different from the accepted they are willing to listen to why you have done it that way.
Obsolutely! - That's how our school operates. I must have to say "osu" about 10 times throughout each lesson. Cheers.
Actually we do both, My Teacher was a live in student with his Chinese Hsing-I family, and I say family because at the age of 14 they actually adopted him legally. Part of the deal in order to learn the "Family system" he had to also go out and get some other art to bring back to enhance the arts of the family. He studied Shotokan, this was in the 60's. So now where I train there are two schools. The karate school is about as "Old school" as it gets. Many of the classes are in Japanese, and stepping out of line (literally) can get you smacked. The other side of the school is Chinese internal arts and it is just the opposite, students call him by his first name! And they don't bow... at all! I have even heard some of this folks ARGUE with him! It is fine for most people because they only attend one or the other, but for the few of us who do both it can be a bit strange to say the least.
My school uses this "Osu" method all the time. Depenging on the practice from once 3 to 30 per class. When I teach I make my students say "osu". It helps them keep in mynd that they are paying to pushed hard and they like the pain of a hard practice. Regards Kerling
Our school is very relaxed with the odd "yes sir" instead of multiple "Osu"'s And while mainly a karate school a couple of the black belts are also black belts in aiki-jujitsu so we get techniques from there all the time and sensi's from other schools come by all the time to train and learn and teach all at once.
In my school there is alot of "Osu". In my Kyokushinkai school the senseis want everything done the traditonial way.
The truht is, we are trainning something that isn't ours, so some people tend to do it just like the original ones do! I can't say that it is wrong, because i also request the respect and ethic a sensei is due inside a Dojo! And when i am in the presence of someone with an equal or higher degree than myself, i show that as well! It is only a way to make things a bit more serious! A Dojo is a place of trainning, it is sacred to all Karatekas (at least it should be!!)!
OK, the exclamation marks are getting on my ticks now. I seriously dunno- Why do something that's alien to your culture to try and make it more 'serious'? and why would you want to take it 'seriously' all the time in the first place? Training is a lot more fun when you have a bit of a laugh at the same time. Not so much that it disrupts the training- just little jokes like saying 'let's take it in turns, it'll be just like primary school' when we do one on ones.
I tend to agree with you KE. We don't do the 'osu' thing at our school and besides knowing the basic moves and terms in a foreign language we train in a very "western" manner. I guess because I don't see it as life or death I don't attach such huge solemnity to the training. We have fun, we learn lots, it's all good!
If you want have fun go bowling or go to a disco! Some practices are on the light note but most are so hard that time for giggeling and other nonsense like that has no place. Majority in our club want's this strict "osu" and hard trainings. I don't practice Karate for good laughs and light fun. My students only thank me if I almost killed them and tought them something. They want to be pushed and be happy with their effort when the come home. Regards Kerling
The anti KE Uhm I think I'm starting to sound as the anti KE. I'm not trying to but we just seem to differ on some points. But laughs when something funny happends is ok but constant giggeling and other nonses is a another thing. Regards Kerling
OK, now you REALLY need to lighten up. Pretending to be japanese does NOT improve your training- oh, and 'constant giggling' is a world away from what I was suggesting, which is a healthy learning environment.
Dohh!... I said it was ok .. shees .. read my reply. But I also said that our students like the japaneese flavor of our club. If it keeps more students and happier students I think it's the right thing for the club. Regards Kerling
Now now Ke, I am glad you held yourself as to delete your 'famous' posts, but don't you think having to say 'osu' etc have a problem, after all it's the training you came for, after all it's the training that matters, the rules of the school are another thing, no problem in learning them, on the other hand it is'nt bad not to include them too IMO, it's like belts, not necessarry, but not too annoying too as to complain about them, the training stays the same |Cain|
It's just vastly annoying and encourages the rest of the world and martial arts community to look on what I used to refer to as 'us'(I'm defecting to kickboxing) as a bunch of fruitcakes.
KE, I don't know about you but I don't do any of this stuff to impact how the rest of the world and Martial arts community see "us". I do this for me. Rituals (like saying "ous") are there for a reason, it is not my place to remove them. But hey it is not the first or last thing to change in the world of martial arts. Besides, I don't think the rest of the world needs any encouragment at all to see us as "fruitcakes".
