What is Chin Na ?

[OBCT]

What exactly is it ?
I see it mentioned a lot, as a sort of CMA grappling, i'm just not familiar with it, i've never seen it.
I saw some brown sash's once using a few grapple based techniques in Lau Gar, is that like Chin Na ?
Does it use locks, throws, groundwork ?
And why is it not so big in the UK ?

[pesilat]

Originally Posted by OBCT

What exactly is it ?
I see it mentioned a lot, as a sort of CMA grappling, i'm just not familiar with it, i've never seen it.
I saw some brown sash's once using a few grapple based techniques in Lau Gar, is that like Chin Na ?
Does it use locks, throws, groundwork ?
And why is it not so big in the UK ?

I don't know a lot about it. If memory serves, it translates as something like "rend and tear". It has a lot of joint locking in it but it's often looking at tearing muscle and tendon. What little I've felt of it has been pretty painful joint locks.

Mike

[cybermonk]

Its basically the chinese words for grappling, it translates into grasping and siezing or something similar, what pesilat said is also accurate. It includes everything from standup grappling to groundwork. The reason its not big in the UK is because its not big anywhere, its pretty much lost. If I wanted to learn here I would have to talk to one of sifu's friend who knows another friend who knows someone else who "might" hold the knowledge or something along those lines. However, stand up chin na is quite common in most systems, wc and praying mantis have a pretty big emphasis on these.

[leo]

just looks like a miss print of china to me never heard of it

perhaps it is a dislexic assostiation in china?? (take no notice of me)

[Stingrae789]

Hung gar does chi nah and we do it quite abit to see how different moves can be used. It consits of locks, grabbing, tearing, arm bars practically anything that hurts but It would be best you heard from someone more experianced.

[OBCT]

Does sound intriguing, i knew other KF systems used it, didn't know about the tendon muscle tearing stuff. Ouch. Shame it's gone or lost, maybe it'll resurface, like WC did, that was tiny once, now its massive. I'd love to see it, anyone know of any shows/seminars ?

[Talyn]

http://www.shaolin.nl/chinna.html

Chin Na is a Mandarin Chinese term describing joint-manipulation techniques for self defense used in the Chinese martial arts, very often involving the study and use of acupressure points to enhance the efficiency of the techniques applied by the practitioner. While techniques along the lines of chin na are trained to some degree by most martial arts worldwide, many Chinese martial arts are famous for their specialization in such applications. Styles such as Eagle Claw, which includes 108 different chin na techniques, Praying Mantis and the "Tiger Claw" techniques of Hung Gar are well known examples. "Chin" means to seize or trap, "Na" means to lock or break, and while those actions are very often executed in that order (trap then lock), the two actions can also be performed distinctly in training and self defense. Which is to say, a trap isn't always followed by a lock or break, and a lock or break is not necessarily set up by a trap.

[El Tejon]

OBCT, hello from across the pond! I study qin na in mantis which has a lot of qin na/counter-qin na, even in form work (it's particular to the style, like organic artillery in a brigade or regiment). As well we study a qin na methodology based on several styles (mantis, long fist, and white crane) as arranged and taught by Dr. Yang, Jwing Ming.

Qin na means "seize and control." Simplified, qin na is the study of joint locks which include locks, throws, striking, kicking, arm bars (which to my shock were not invented in a judo dojo in Brazil--who knew?), neck breaks and leg locks, standing or on the ground. It is controlling the threat to end aggression or deliver a "fight stopper" with limited exposure to the user.

It's not exactly "grappling" in the more popular sense, maybe "counter-grappling" is a better description, but I leave that to others much wiser.

As to why is not more popular in the UK, I am uncertain. I do know many CMAers in the UK and am quite impressed with their skill and knowledge. I would believe that qin na is taught there, but do not know for certain.

[OBCT]

Well, thank you for that, just the concise answer i was after.

Mantis isn't all that big here either, it's all Wu Shu, Wing Chun and a lot of Lau Gar, seems TKD and Karate are most popular, luckily theres a good dojo here mostly JMA (Aikido, Karate, Ju Jitsu) with Wing Chun as its token CMA, there is also a Lau Gar place and a Wu Shu place near me, so i'm lucky, but still CMA is pretty limited here, San Francisco seems to have loads, just not fair.

[El Tejon]

Well, San Fransico is a major city (I believe still in the top 20 of largest US cities) and a area of Chinese immigration for over 140 years. Thus, stands to reason that CMA would be taught there, especially after CMA is now more open.

Got to be stuff in London, right? London is approx. 7 million, IIRC, still? Any hope of relocating there? Or, if you are ever here, you can come to Boston with us to train with Dr. Yang and his boys. We'll be the guys that talk awfully funny, but we'll buy dinner.

Best wishes, my friend!

[cybermonk]

Originally Posted by El Tejon

Well, San Fransico is a major city (I believe still in the top 20 of largest US cities) and a area of Chinese immigration for over 140 years. Thus, stands to reason that CMA would be taught there, especially after CMA is now more open.

Got to be stuff in London, right? London is approx. 7 million, IIRC, still? Any hope of relocating there? Or, if you are ever here, you can come to Boston with us to train with Dr. Yang and his boys. We'll be the guys that talk awfully funny, but we'll buy dinner.

Best wishes, my friend!

Dr. Yang? That name sounds familiar. Did he write any long fist related material?

[xuande]

As others already have mentioned it roughly translates to sieze and control. It isn't a style by itself like mantis, Hung Gar or Lau Gar. Rather it is how to control your opponent using the least amount of effort, joint locking, separation of muscle, cavity pressing, sealing of breath and vein and pressure points are how chi na is primarily used.

We have a class that focuses specifically on chi na but all of the applications are found in the various forms that we teach, most of the time it isn't readily apparent though. In the more advanced levels we deal primarily with pressure points and the various meridians in the body. Some styles tend to emphasize china techniques more than others like Eagle Claw and Preying Mantis.

[OBCT]

Ah, so its not a 'style' as such, more a principle, in which techniques are taught, employed by sesveral styles. kind of like aiki is to aiki ju jitsu ?

[El Tejon]

cybermonk, yes, he wrote the Long Fist book in '81 or '82 after he graduated Purdue and went to work for TI in Houston.

[Stingrae789]

Chi na may have been taught as a style but it is very rare anywhere (as far as i know) And i believe alot of chi nah depends on the teacher and whether his teacher was taught the applications of chi nah etc. chi nah is included in many forms as an underlying element.