Is Aikido to complicated to use in a REAL fight???

I read the following article in an email I get from this man's site. I don't agree or disagree with it as I have no real good knowledge of using Aikido in a fight but I've heard similiar sentiments from many corners of the martial arts community.

I personally think that the assessment below might be biased since no-one does well in defending themselves untill they've gotten over the "mental-training" aspect of self-defence within their choosen martial art. Untill you have some experiance dealing with the "shock" value of an attack you really aren't going to be that effective with your choosen martial art.

So my question, after you read this is two-fold.

a.) do you think Aikido is too complicated to really learn to use effectively in a high adrenaline street fight / self-defence situation.

b.) If complexity is an issue in your choosen art form what do you do to prepare for and minimize the "shock" value of an attack?

When I was studying Bujinkan Ninjutsu I was told to do the following in my free time... visualize an attack, visualize every facet of the attack and how you might react with the skills you have. I was to start with simple attacks and work my way on up to more complex attacks. In no way was this to replace any self-defence training, but it was thought that the more I could ''concieve" of a attack the more prepared I'd be mentally and emotionally for the "real-deal"

What do you think???


Aikido and Self Defense

The principle of aikido is to blend in with the force or attack,
join it and continue using the other persons power along with
your own power against them. Aikido uses a system of
leverage, finger, wrist and arm locks to subdue their potential
attacker.

Students spend a great deal of time learning to fall and roll,
usually on padded mats. This is necessary as the practice of
aikido requires practitioners to be able to withstand various types
of throws, sweeps and takedowns.

Typically, after a couple of years of training, students of aikido
are able to defend themselves from various type of open handed and
weapon attacks.

Watching a skilled Aikido student can be beautiful. It seems so
effortless in their maneuvers that they are able to send their
would be attacker flying in different directions.

While this is all true in the Aikido dojo, the questions remains,
will they be able to really execute this on the street?

To answer this we must look at the typical effects of adrenal
stress on most people, trained or un-trained. One of the most
devastating effects of the 'adrenaline dump' is the loss of fine
motor coordination. The other is a limited access to our cognitive
thinking. Both of these factors weigh heavily against the aikido
practitioner.

While under a heavy surge of fear induced adrenaline, it is hard
to think very clearly or certainly, very quickly. In an art like
Aikido that requires a multitude of highly technical techniques,
it is doubtful whether most would have mental access to this arrary
of precision hand meneuvers.

Additionally the manual dexterity required for most of the wrist
manipulations would unlikely be useful because of the loss of fine
motor coordination during the adrenaline stress of a real attack.

Our experience with our F.A.S.T. Defense (Fear Adrenal Stress
Response Training) training confirms this. We have seen experienced
Aikido practitioners fail to apply these techniques while adrenalized.

Written by
Shihan Michael Pace

Shihan Pace is the author of Street Self Defense 101. Read about
Street Self
Defense 101 at this link:
http://www.1shoppingcart.com/app/adtrack.asp?AdID=76304

 

give me a break. this is coming from a guy who claims he can teach you to defend yourself from any attack with 4 hours of videotape.

please be a little more skeptical when reading this garbage.

RE: aikido.

of course aikido is difficult to learn and master, if it was easy everyone would do it. wristlocks, fine motor movements, are a direct result of entering and/ or neutralization techniques of aikido, which involve moving the whole body. so, while it is true that the adrenal dump may (or may not) cause diminishing effectiveness in applying wristlocks the overall movements of the aikidoka should not be effected. wristlocks, when properly applied, require a certain amount of positional control to be effective regardless of the adrenaline dump.

preparing for shock value is addressed primarily through randori in a traditional aikido setting. however, it is always good to supplement your training with some hard sparring to help in this regard. also, who has never been in at least one fight?

as a side note, i consider most wristlocks as an afterthought or useful only in certain situations. aikido has much more than wristlocks.


Clearer?

 

No its not too complex. I've used it & it worked. In my opinion its not the art that creates a problem but the user. Some people will always freeze outside of the dojo while others never will. At least if you train regularly your response is at best automatic or at least semi-automatic and will give you an edge over an untrained individual although not necessarily your attacker (I consider them trained if they fight regularly).

In fact all MA or self-defence sysytems are only as good as the user.

 

aikinoob please, don't shoot the messenger since I don't actually believe that aikido is to complicated to use in a dangerous situation. Call it a hunch or a belief that old samuari wouldn't have invested serious time in a Bullsh*t martial art.

I just posted it since I hear that from a lot of non-aikidoka whenever the topic of aikido comes up or they hear that I'm thinking of taking aikido. I should've been more clear in my original statement and included that I also wanted to hear what aikidoka say when they encounter this sentiment.

philipsmith you touched on something I was talking about when you mentioned that some freeze outside a dojo and some don't when in a dangerous situation. Now does your aikido or have you personally come up with a method for dealing with that internal issue?

Thanks for your inputs so far guys...

 

I used it twice while I was working on the door. Once I used shomen ate and the other time waki gatame. Both times it was effective. Maybe that was because I was sober and ready for it and the other guy involved each time was drunk...but the fact was that they came at me and I used the techniques that I had learnt.

 

I signed up to the same thing!

I think the guys a joke, it annoys me imensely that he feels that he can teach simple practical techniques that you learn from a video whithout anyone helping you or any physical opponent there but that a traditional martial arts school with full contact sparring and punching drills and what have you is "Too complex to remember under stress"!!!

I am tempted to get his videos just to see what he teaches, I think it would be a good laugh, what he thinks he's going to teach that is simpler than some of the stuff I have learnt I dont know.

Seriously though, his main argument is that movements are to complex in martial arts but what on earth can be simpler than smacking the attacker in the face? What can he do from a video that will allow you to cope with the stress of an attack more easily but which cant be taught in the dojo when you are actually fighting someone?

 

Non aikidoka only get to see the exhibition flashy aikido on demos etc.
Basically on the syllabus there are techniques,many of which are not applicable to the street at face value.But take a closer look and you will find that there are a lot of self defence orientated moves and every move can be adapted to a street situation no matter how flashy it looks,you just gotta take the basics from it.
It can be used in real situations,its just like everything worth doing,takes a lot of time dedication and consistency

A) No,it can be used.

B) Confidence,believing in yourself and your style.Knowing to stick tp the basics
(Going to training evey now and then wouldnt go astray!)Consistency

 

puh...

Sorry Ghostrider, time is short and puh! pretty much sums it up for me.

Good article though if your trying to sell a video

 

What the hells so complicate about IRIMI NAGE, it works a treat against all people, especially when you use the atemi the face,instead of the throw as that what real irimi nage is. Remember its a Martial ART not bloody street fighting, your there to learn a trillion more things than how to fight. There is not one true Martial ART out there that every single one of there techs will work against every single person. Some things are for the dojo only ie the ART. If you cant work out in your head what little changes you need to make to your art so its effective in the street then somethings very wrong.
I remember my time in Taekwondo (7years) there is a section called one step sparring( some of its about as effective as a chocolate tea cup) basically you stand waiting then you are attacked with a single striaght punch and then you learn to apply defencive strikes, kicks, locks etc. There is a time when you see them jumping spinning kicks to the head against a punch. thats just the art side it would never work if the person was close enough to punch you, or kicking to the head in a crowded pub.

 

Oh look my favourite type of question.

Actually I hate these questions for two reasons . The first being, it has been done to death and the second. Why would one of Japans most respected martial artists (O Sensei) create a useless style? Of which there are god knows how many spin-offs.

The article it's self looks at Aikido in a very simplistic light. There is certainly alot of throwing and immobalising involved. However there is also alot of work done to help people cope with stress. Some styles of Aikido use alot of meditation and breathing while others favour randori and sparring, all of which are very effective tried and tested methods for dealing with stress. In fact it's probably fair to say every martial art out there does something to help people cope with stress.

In short, people are taught to deal with this adrenaline dump thing, (I could be wrong I'm not an expert, but isn't dopeamine more likely to cause you to freeze than adrenaline is ).

So far as Aikido techniques as self defence go. The long winded techniques where uke runs round nage are there purely for the dojo. They are training excorcises. For a real situation the technique can be cut right down to it's objective. The technique isn't taught this way since Aikido also involves it's self in teaching students things like coordination and control.

 

I practice aikido and I'd say that sometimes at the lower level that some of the moves are too complicated for actual battle. But I would also say that if you were part way through a tecnique that you must already have control and it would be easy enough just to strike or sweep the other person leaving you accomplishing your one goal. Taking him down. But like aikiwolfe said most of them can be shortened to get to the point and end it. Either way I like it for its simpleness in that all you want to do is control the center and control both your and your opponent's balance. (well thats how I'm taught) Once you have both of these, or even one, the scales of a fight are tipped in your favor.

 

wheheheheheh!!!! cool guys self control is want we aikido practitioners are known for. we strike when least expected. hehehehehe!!!!

 

i've read it 2 fold

 

no its not complicated. it just needs time to develop in a person

of course! any art for that matter! but never in a learn to defend video

i practice my but off!!! because my line of work as legal enforcement officer has my life at stake.

 

we'll good for you sir but it took me 20years and i'm still training on aikido daily

 

yes! if possible or bruttaly take him down with any aikido moves posible on each situation.

not only that! i use my teeth if everything is exausted

not only that but he could stand quickly if ever he falls

 

and years after man!

thats the beauty of it

of course! not only is the attacker flying but screeming as well

if adrenaline is not channeled properly panic comes :Alien:

 

i teach my boys to run first ask for help. do you mean he should stay and fight if he could run and evade?

oh no!!! man!!! your twisting the reallity of it
aikido techniques should be used in a sudden attack. not in a confrontation. thats teaching people to be violent

 

but thier feet could run. then its plan of fighting that comes into play. what they should do next is up to they're knowledge.

maybe experience but not yet belted.

whats your line of work man?
have you use your art for real?