The myth of being muscle bound.

-The myth of being muscle bound keeps coming up again and again. I know that it is imgrained in public perception and will be slow to change. However, to try to do my part (as if all the research and studies done by credible researchers and studies weren't enough), I had one of my students post some old pictures of me in the galleries. They are posted under the name Uke's Mom, since her teenage son Jordan is the asst. in one pic.
- The muscle posing are some gym shots from back when I was a competitive bodybuilder and powerlifter (I am now about the same bodyfat percentage and roughly 10 lbs of muscle heavier, though not shaved down and am now white as a ghost/no tan). The jump split kick is from 1999, right before I injured my knee. The (held for pose) vertical round kick is pretty recent as is the pic w/ Jordan.
-I have always and will continue to preach that a properly designed and executed program of progressive resistance training is among the most valuable tools for a martial artist who wishes to increase their physical capabilities, as is cardio and stretching. I am always reading posts from people who claim that if you get too big it will impair your flexability ("Can these guys even button their shirts?") and make you unable to move. Unfortunately, I can't demonstrate my speed by a picture, but as far as agility, flexibility, and athleticism goes; a picture is worth a thousand words.
-Just for the record, in posting this, my intent is not to say "what a good boy I am". When I was coming up, many of the top competitors used to preach the old myths against weight training as a tool for martial artists. Through most of my teens, I was impressionable and went by what my heroes at the time (like Benny Urquidez and Bill Wallace) told me was the best ways for an aspiring martialarts champion to train. In my later teens, I saw people like Billy Blanks (pre-Tae Bo and when one MA article dubbed him "Karate's Incredible Hulk) and Steve "Nasty" Anderson who were low level bodybuilders and strength athletes, as well as black belts. I noted that they had an awesome domination of the USA tournament circuit based mostly on their superior athletic abilities. This started me doing actual research rather than just listening to others opinion.
-I found that all the actual research showed that, unlike the myths, with a proper program weight training would increase not only strength, but speed and stretch too. I then went on and field tested this and started winning in both forms and full contact competition. I did find myself getting disqualified for excessive contact in point sparring (in fairness to the weights, I could have used better control if I had really wanted to, we used to call point fighting a "legal way to go knock somebody out") even more than before the weights. This even motivated me to choose Ex. Phys. as my major.(you can go to far on these kicks though, the market value on this wasn't that high. That's why I later went back to get a second degree. Of course, I ended up a MA school owner rather than an attorney specializing in International Law, so it really is a moot point).
-I really just hope that some of the people coming up using MAP as a place to gain knowledge on training will see these pics and maybe read this post and hopefully not have the myths limit there growth as it has so many others. At least to know that they too can have the best of both worlds and that these characteristics are not mutually exclusive as many people still think. If I can do it, so can you. Success leaves tracks and you can achieve.

 

Some good pics there to match the sentiment KJ.

 

I really appreciate your point of view. I do weight train, although I am in no way in any danger of becoming 'muscle bound", and have encountered these exact sentiments of impairment with speed and flexibility from other martial artists. It is nice to see the pics and hear your story as an example that building strength can enhance your MA training as opposed to impeding it. Thank you.

 

I too weight train and have gained excellent increases which have helped alot with my martial arts abilities.

 

It's just a pathetic myth perpetuated by people who believe in what meditating old sages sitting on mountain-tops say over science and practical experience. It makes me chuckle every time someone says it.

 

Ill ask a question if I may...

I agree with what you are saying.

However...(not in the salesman sense please!)

Is there any necessity in having big biceps? (from a striking perspective...) I thought that in general, the triceps are the muscle you want to use more since they extend rather than the biceps which pull the power back from a strike?

 

It terms of striking, the bi cep only works as a stabaliser muscle when punching.

 

-Good question, and thank you for bringing up one of the other major fallacies regarding weight training. The notion that one should only train specific muscle groups that you see as being sport or activity specific. This is the only way to truly become "muscle bound". Though not because of large amounts of lean muscle mass.
-First, the body works as an integrated whole. Proper punching begins from the ground up, moves and drives from the legs and hips, then drives through the pecs, shoulders, then to the triceps (this is an overly simplified account for times sake). It is the bicep that begins the action of recoiling the punch. Second, you need to keep your muscular development even and in balance along the natural strength curves of the body. Not only does this promote optimum performance, but helps prevent injury as well. Remember the old saying, "a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link"? This is true of your body as well. any area that is left underdevloped along the normal ratio of strength proportions to your body will be where your body is going to break down and injuries will occur.
-This is why I don't recommend pure powerlifting and do recommend some basic "bodybuilding" exercises within a martial artist's workout routine. Many of the powerlifts leave some groups underdeveloped. Keep in mind with your original question about the bicep, that it should be roughly 1/3 of the arms muscle mass, while the tricep should be 2/3. If someone tries to overdevelop their biceps while underdeveloping the triceps (which due to ego/vanity happens often) this creates the same problem that you proposed.
-To recap, proper weight training keeps balanced proportional development throughout the body's major muscle groups. If you observe this rule of thumb, it will be a tool to greatly enhace your athletic performance. Ignoring this important rule will lead to results far different than what you are hoping for. Train smart and best of luck.

 

Hmmm, ive definately found that as i put on muscle i have to make sure i stretch a lot as well otherwise my flexibility just goes right out the window... Im not quite sure if it was your point but IMHO the BIG guys cannot be as fast as the little guys!! Just watch a feather weight boxer and then the super heavyweight!!! Can you imagine someone like Ronnie Coleman kickboxing? hehe. Im not however saying that the big guys are slow! I know some and they are still pretty nippy!

 

It would be more cogent to limit our discussion to those who are not the following:

1. Genetic Freaks, who...
2. Do massive amounts of roids, or other stuff like...
3. Injecting **** straight into the muscle

Even so, perhaps Ronnie Coleman would surprise you with what he's capable of. In fact, I like how you phrased it "Imagine Ronnie Coleman...". Right. Imagine. We never see what they do, cuz they rarely do it. One really can't say one way or the other based on just that. Though I do remember a "World's Strongest Man" series which involved body builders, like Lou Ferigno and Franco Columbo.

 

hmmm, well i was taking a few guys from my gym and scaling up a little. We have some BIG guys that go to my gym who may or may not get regular imports from tailand... Anyway their flexibility is bad, they would have to do loads of stretching to bring it to any decent level and they arent the quickest on their feet from what ive seen (they attend a kickboxing session run by my gym). Thats all im going on. Happy to take other opinions though.

 

Lack of stretching over a greatly extended period of time will cause terrible flexibility in anyone, regardless of their muscles mass. Similarly, if you never train your agility, it will decline severely.

So basically, these people at your gym are most likely not "muscle bound" but more likely they simply don't train their flexibility and agility to the degree they need to for kickboxing. I can think of a number of people I'm friends with off the top of my head who are quite skinny yet not particularly agile and flexible.

 

I read an interesting article of Charles Staley about this very same subject and he said there that it wa possible to get the "muscle bound" condition in weight training.

Our muscles are supposed to be composed of fast-twitch and slow-twitch fibers. Staley wrote that using the recommended form of weight training (slow and controlled lifts) every time will only develop those of the slow-twitch kind. Explosive lifts develop the fast-twitch fibers. If the slow-twitch fibers are developed more, the person would not improve the speed of muscular contraction.

This is how people are supposed to slow with weight training.

 

The time at which slow and fast-twitch muscle fibres are innervated has nothing to do with the speed of a movement. Slow twitch are activated first, then as resistance increases, fast twitch activation increases. Basically as effort increases, fast-twitch involvement increases. If you are doing a really heavy lift but you are pushing it slowly, you are still using all your fast-twitch fibres. Sprinters are muscular because the fast twitch fibres have the biggest potential to grow and they are used to the max in sprinting and the anaerobic training they do. Long distance runners are skinny because they use the aerobic systems more and the slow twitch fibres have a lot of endurance, with less growth potential.

 

-Actually there are four types of muscle fiber. There is slow twitch and three seperate categories that are classified as fast twitch. They are FO which is mixed between endurance and speed/explosive power, FOG which is the next step up in speed; and the elusive FG fibers that are the highest level of speed/power. As another poster mentioned, there is an orderly recruitment based on the workload on the muscle. Regardless of how fast the movement, if the resistance is low (I.e. light), then you are training slow twitch fibers because they are the first recruited and they are sufficient for the job. Muscle bound is a non-scientific term that is usually a great clue that the author knows little (or less) on the subject and a great warning that their article may be appropriate for toilet tissue and little else, whether they have been published or not (my statement does not pertain to the term being referenced regarding popular language).

-Matt King mentioned how can a big guy be as fast as a little guy. On the same person, if it is proportionatly developed lean muscle (muscle, not fat and developed along the natural strength curve) they will be faster. Muscle is the engine that drives the body, if you put a bigger engine with more horsepower in a vehicle, this is the result you get. When you look at high level Pro bodybuilders, there are many who are world class athletes in other areas. Tom Platz, whose leg development dwarfs Ronnie Coleman's (even after the freaky transformation Coleman made this past year) could do a full Chinese split. The big Soviet Olympic lifter, Alexeev (spelling?) who was the first to break the 500 lbs. mark in the early '70's was just off a world class sprint in spite of the excess bodyfat he carried. Ken "Flex" Wheeler, was a noted black belt competitor and during the early part of Coleman's Olympia reign, considered the 2nd best bodybuiler on Earth.

-When I was competeing in bodybuilding, it was the era they were instituting the drug tests for the national level amateurs and pro-level competitors. At that stage in time, Coleman won the World amatuer championships (Universe) as a drug tested competitor. He and I were actually quite close in physiques and if anything, I was the bigger of the two (espescially in the legs). I planned to wait until the following year's USA, but had hernia surgery and had to wait, then they dropped the drug testing and the drug problem exploded, so I made my decision to get out. I've never regretted that decision, but I have regretted being forced into a position to have to make it.

-As far as speed goes, I am hesitant to go here because I don't want to make this about me (or come off like I'm bragging about how great I think I am), but rather about the validity of training methods and overcoming training myths. The potential for speed is in part genetically pre-determined. In fact, when you look at the high level of muscular development in a champion bodybuilder, that is mostly due to the presence and development of the FG (fastest twitch of the four fiber types) fibers. I am not the fastest martial artist out there. I would consider myself a 9 on a scale of ten for world-class martial artists. I would also consider (here comes the slamming by every troll out there) Bruce Lee a nine, as well. I think I've trained close to my genetic potential for speed (though I am experimenting with some new training methods that may further recruit the FG fibers, so we will see. I can prove by photos my flexability, size, and jumping ability. For speed there is little I can do to prove my statement, but far more important than how fast I am (the only reason I bring it up is to say "hey, it's worked wonders for me") is the fact that numerous studies have shown what I am saying to be true.

 

All fair points if you ask me. Also, I know the bit about muscle fibre types, there just isn't any point complicating something for someone who doesn't understand the original concept

 

Sorry about my post. I was just paraphrasing the actual article since I could not remember the link. From what I can remember from that particaular web page, the guy seems to know what he is talking about.

From what I read from there it may be possible for a person to slow or be inflexible when weight training (although the latter I think seems unlikely, the external load already helps in the stretch) depending on how a particular program is conducted.

 

In a strictly striking art, I wouldn't consider it as important to have large biceps. However, you would still want strong biceps to be proper antagonists to the triceps and main punching muscles. If the biceps are weak, compared to the triceps, you'll never generate maximum power.

However, the biceps become much more important in grappling/throwing arts, where you have to manipulate an opponent who, more than likely, doesn't want to go where you're trying to make them go. Even then, bicep size is less important than bicep strength.

Regarding Charles Staley, he actually designed the certification course I'm taking through the ISSA; the Specialization in Martial Arts Conditioning. So, he's a greatly reliable source for info at:
www.integratedsportsolutions.com/

 

Thank you very much for posting the link. I have copies of his articles, but I forgot the web page they came from. It was from his articles (along with the evil Russian at Muscle Mag) that I got my ideas on weight training affecting the speed of muscular contraction.

 

:bang: here was me thinking that weights was bad for you. and suprise suprise i was told by a very good martial artist that weights is bad bla bla bla. BUT all respect to him, because hes doesnt do weights, is fairly skinny, but will really kill someone if he wanted.

anyway i will do weights, but this high volume stuff scares me, becuase doesnt doing high volume workouts make your muslces needlessly bigger? or is this another misconception ive had. i ask becuase someone else posted that high volume weights increases strength massivly yet has the least muscle gain.

sorry if i seem stupid, mainly becuase i am, but id just like to know. its very "new" to me