World Ju-jitsu federation

Discussion in 'Ju Jitsu' started by snailfist, May 7, 2004.

  1. snailfist

    snailfist Valued Member

    Does anyone here train in a WJJF club?
    Everything i've seen or heard about them seems to suggest that the WJJF amounts to a chain of Mcdojos :(
    Not wishing to offend anyone, this is just what i've heard, and I'm seeking a more universal field of opinion.
     
  2. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    The founder of the WJJF, Robert Clark, has always been a businessman and he treats ju jitsu as a business. This means that the WJJF has a fairly commercial outlook in terms of attracting students, charging fees and selling equipment, badges and the like. It generally works out a lot more expensive to train at a WJJF club than other non-WJJF ju jitsu clubs. Sensei Clark has also been a fairly controversial figure over the years because of some of his business ventures, such as distance learning courses, and also because of arguments with some people in Japan.

    In all fairness,There isn't a strong tradition of making money from martial arts in the UK, so people take a negative view of anyone with this approach. You only have to look at what some of our US friends (particularly TKDers) are paying in contracts, grading fees, etc to see that Clark is not at all extreme from an international perspective.

    Like most other MA organisations, the actual training standards vary from club to club. Some of the WJJF clubs in the Liverpool area are offer a very high standard of training and instruction, so it would be wrong to dismiss them as 'Mcdojos'.

    I personally like to train in a small, uncommercial club, but a lot of people like a club that sells itself very heavily, and I wouldn't begrudge them paying higher mat fees if they're getting what they want from it.
     
  3. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Aagin it depends very much on the instructor. I personally am not a very big fan of the WJJF style per se(and yes I have trained in it - 3 yrs), but the instructor I had was very, very good and recognised the subtle difference between "Syllabus" and "applied". He was also quite a talented kickboxer(Graham Piper - if anyone still trains with him tell him "Ninja Jon" says hello).

    That said, the atmosphere at most WJJF clubs is friendly and who knows, you may like it! I do prefer BJJ though...
     
  4. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    The only experience I've had with the WJJF is a guy who came along to train at our club. He said our stuff was similar in places but focusing more on effortless technique eventually, and training against left handed attacks too, something he claimed had been very weak in his club until you got to black belt.

    Other than that I've no experience with them at all. But I'd like to claim that my style's better anyway :p
     
  5. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    LOL! I like it, I like it.... :D
     
  6. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    Oh, and another thing... Here's a bit of history for you...

    Robert Clark originally trained under James Blundell at Lowlands Ju Jitsu Club in West Derby, Liverpool. Clark and Richard Morris later formed the WJJF which contained a large number of ju jitsu clubs throughout the country. At some point, there was a split between them and the BJJA, which is one of the largest groups in existence now and claims Governing Body status. As a result, the WJJF and BJJA have a virtually identical syllabus, although the manner in which it is implemented varies heavily from club to club.

    Our club uses the same syllabus, and it's true that there is not a lot of emphasis on left-sided work until later grades, but there is scope to cover this within off-syllabus work.

    I was going to make a daft remark about our style being:
    i) the true art
    ii) L33t ON THE STR33T
    ii) the most effective and brutal going, imagine a tiger tearing at a rabbit, etc...
    But I can't be bothered. :D
     
  7. Sub zero

    Sub zero Valued Member

    My club use to be WJJF. They split off before my time (in JJ). I think there were more reasons though than the ones already siad. but yeah.......apparently our clubs only been better since...although my instructors don't kncock the WJJF......they say like any other organisation their standerds vary form club to club.

    http://www.jujitsuscotland.com

    If ne ones intreseted...
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2004
  8. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    My club split from the BJJA, who split from the WJJF. We're a lot better off too..

    I'm interested. :)
     
  9. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    I'm sure there were :D. It's worth being cautious as people have computers and lawyers :D
     
  10. Sub zero

    Sub zero Valued Member

    Yeah.......thought i should leave them out......

    Nothing wrong with organisations splting up.it can be good or bad. but in my experince it leads to better standards.
     
  11. budogirl

    budogirl Armed and fabulous!

    This thread has got me worried! I train in a WJJF club that is small and not at all commercial. Having said that, I have only studied Jujitsu in one other place (for a short time as well) so I don't really have anything to compare it with. I like where I train - the class has a good atmosphere and the syllabus is slightly different from that in Clark's books (we do higher grade moves in lower belts).
    Still, that's my experience. I would like to hear more about what others think of WJJF, I am intrigued.
     
  12. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    I wouldn't worry about it. It's all just politics. There disputes, arguments and rumours for every large martial arts association and they usually have little influence on the day to day running of the clubs within the organisation. If you like your club you should carry on training there.
     
  13. gofaster

    gofaster New Member

    I want free beer !!!

    No organization is perfect.

    Try [​IMG] and let me know !!!!

    Have good day !!!
     
  14. Ghost Frog

    Ghost Frog New Member

    Love to. Can I get funding for a visit? :D

    Oh, and free beer is available from me in Bootle Stadium main bar on Mondays and Wednesdays. HTH. :D
     
  15. Tatsumaru

    Tatsumaru Your new God!

    i am a member of a WJJF club but to be honest i never noticed! My sensei used to train in Judo and so he teaches us anything he doesn't think the WJJF syllabus covers enough himself (its true left handed attackers are at first scarce!). On a couple of occasions our sensei has said something along the lines of "this is pretty unlikely to work in any real situation just on it's own but if you add this move...." so i guess its true the WJJF clubs that stick rigidly to the syllabus may miss out on a few bits but i don't think its a 'mcdojo' organisation. I certainly don't pay significantly higher fees than other MA clubs i know of.
     
  16. bioboy

    bioboy New Member

    I'm an instructor for the WJJF based in the North East and I've been training with them for 11 years now. However, I wouldn't stay with them if I thought they were just a McDojo. :D

    Sure, there are badges and other stuff for sale at gradings and I'm sure Robert Clarke makes a living out of it, but then he has to pay his bills like the rest of us I suppose and it's his living like anybody else.

    I'm not saying everything is perfect and that I agree with every decision that's made. I'm always willing to voice an opinion when I disagree. (I think the administration at Headquarters is quite poor and it's website useless!). However, on the whole most of the people I've dealt with are decent and there are some very good martial artists in our association.

    I'm sure there will be some clubs in every association where the instructor sticks rigidly to the syllabus and is more interested in making money than teaching effective martial arts and I guess that's down to their conscience. All I can say is that I and the other instructors I know in the North East teach loads of stuff which is not on the syllabus.

    I for one am always willing to say when I think a technique might not be very effective on the street and suggest a different way of applying the technique or an alternative.

    As far as the grading fees are concerned, I charge £3.50/adult for a 1.5 hour lesson, which I don't think is excessive and I can assure you there's hardly any profit in it for me. :cry:

    The cost of attending courses is also quite reasonable IMHO. For instance we have an International Course in October, which will be attended by some of the top WJJF coaches from around the world as well as top exponents from other martial arts. The cost for 4 hours is £15. I would never knock another martial art, but when I compare this to some Karate courses I have seen where students pay £30 to do kata for a couple of hours it seems very good value.

    Like I say, the organisation isn't perfect and there will be good and bad coaches, but many of us are teaching effective martial arts in a friendly atmosphere, which a lot of people enjoy. I'm sure there will always be people who prefer something else and good luck to them in finding something they enjoy.
     
  17. gareth

    gareth New Member

    Fellow wjjf member

    Nice to know there are more people out there.I train at the Rhyl club with Sensai Keith Mcdonald.Im soon to be purple in about 2 weeks time.Is anybody going to Flint at the end of September?

    ps got beasted by a bo staff the other day , jees those things hurt !!!!!!!
     
  18. svadhyaya

    svadhyaya New Member

    Hi Gareth, does the Rhyl club have a website? I've been looking out for a North Wales club for a friend of mine who is interested in JJ, but with no luck so far...
     
  19. OneDragons

    OneDragons Valued Member

    I am in the WJJF (3rd Dan) as well as training in various other styles for several years and Id agree with most comments Ive read. Basically the standards do vary and yes I have seen some shocking instructors but there are also some really exceptional martial art instructors in the organisation (if there wasnt I wouldn't still be a member).

    If you find a club you like irrespective of who the club pay there fees to thats really all that matters for training.
    Many of the things that the WJJF have been critisised for i.e. making money, have been copied by many other organisations because they realised its a good idea if you want to actually make a living out of it and dedicate yourself to the style. So you could say the WJJF is just 'one step ahead of the competition';)

    Though when I actually look at what you pay for your training and membership fees etc. it isnt really all that bad compared to other styles, though I dont agree with the compulsory badge thing but you cant have everything. And as mentioned above the events and courses run by the WJJF are pretty reasonably priced.
     
  20. gareth

    gareth New Member

    In reply to your question I'm affraid that we dont have a website as of yet but we met in the Pavillion Theater in Rhyl on Fridays at 6:00 and finish at 7:00 if your friend is intersted he would be very welcome at our club.
     

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