why is it so hard to believe??

i was just wondering because ive come across alot of discussions, why is it so hard for you trained martial artist to accept that in shou shu you can take on multiple oppentents(6plus or whatever) and win? you keep saying prove it, how exactly would you like us to prove to you over the web? why do you have a problem believeing that?

now please all im doing is asking in the politest way i can please do the same with your answers i dont want it to turn into a chest thumping contest, please

 

well its the fact that you say you can take out 6 plus people when you dont know anyone hear. It varies from person to person they way they fight. Its like me saying i can take out 15 people. 15 ten year olds.

just my

$0.02

 

i think because often we are going to say maybe 6+ non-MA's or unable fighters or whatnot until i seen you fight 6 MAs from another system at the same time. what about 3 shoushu vs 1, will the 1 always lose, thus defeating the system?

anyways, that is but a thought. my other argument is i haven't seen anything or read anything to see fundamental differences or advantages compared to other MAs. maybe it is because you train/spar against multiple attackers, this gives you the experience! like a MA who spars will maybe do better then the one that doesn't with equal MA skill.

 

okay then lets clarify , what we're trained to do in shou shu is defend our selves agianst punks, people that want to rob you, take your car, murder you so on and so forth. so a multi attack senerio would most likely be agianst a gang of thugs, "street fighters" who dont have the foggiest about anything that would actually hurt you on there own except guns or knives (thats another topic though). we're not trained to take on a bunch of master martial artist because thats not what our style is based on. not one time when one of us said we're trained to take on however many people did we mean 10 grand masters of whatever style. and we work slowly up to big groups of people 2, 3 , 4, so on. i would not expect to get jumped by a goup of trained M.Aist, or even one because martial artist, as a whole, dont start fights right? if i were to fight one i couldnt say who would win i dont know.

and by the way i dont believe being over confident in yourself is not a bad thing because its that little spec doubt that lets you down in the end.

 

jroe52
thats really hard to explain without showing you and often the people who are questioning us are unaccepting of our answers and it spirells down from there. but let me try a little, okay we have seven animals right, bear, tiger, mongoose, crane, mantis, cobra, and dragon and our belts are white, orange(high&low), purple(h&L), blue(h&L), green(h&L), red(optional), brown(3levels), and black(plain) then the seven animals, okay through the color belts you "learn" shou shu but really its not even scratching the surface of what you will learn. because its only until you reach ur black(plain) that you r now prepared to learn. so all the color belts are only preparing you, now dont get me wrong you learn plenty but its not even as complex as what ur about to learn, it just sets the stage for it. from there you master each animal so take the bear, you now go back through all the color belts and learn all the techniqes and material over agian as the bear as well as additional bear material, then you do the same thing with the tiger, the mongoose, the crane, the mantis, the cobra, and the dragon. so you learn the same material seven distinctly diff ways, lots of material, plus additional material (katas, tech & such) for 7 animals. hope this helps you understand i tried really hard, i know its confusing but this really isnt very much

 

Think of this: what if the people in question also practice the same art? Theoretically, you must be able to defeat them easily, but since they should be able to beat up the same #, they should have no prob. beating 1 guy in a 6 on 1 fight. Get the paradoxial logic?

 

maximicus are you saying that by the odd 100 to 1 chance that i would fight someone in shou shu......? what i've already stated holds true. shou shu is not a tournement, sparring for points, style. so im not basing the fights on that. i have know idea what would happen if i fought some one from shou shu, it would depend on what belt they were and how much they could properly execute any given move. if im understanding your question right

why would i be able to defeat them easily, in theory?

 

You made that point really well. When did we say we could defeat ten crazy Brazilian Jiu Jitsu dudes that have been training for years and years and years? If we said we could defeat three grand masters of any art at the same time, that would be ridiculous!

That's not to say, however, that I don't beleive a first degree black belt in Shou Shu could beat the crap out of a second or third in most if not all styles of karate, any rank in some art like capoeira, and, yes, a damn good ground fighter, too. Flame me all you guys want, but that's what I believe, and I'm stickin' to it. Shou Shu is amazing, as are Shou Shu black belts. They will friggin' maim people with their bare hands, make no bones about it on that one.

As for little ole me? A red belt? I can handle my shiznit. Especially against 3 or 4 punks, because I'll friggin' bite someone's face off if I have to.

Also, I can kick and punch REALLY HARD, and move fluidly, and use, along with tactics, my peripheral vision.

But, most of all what will drive me to maul three punks that try to rape my girl and curb stomp me? Confidence and the will to survive. Confidence that Shou Shu is absolutely badazz and that I have some of that badazzness in me....and the will to survivve....so that I can go learn more Shou Shu.

Nuff said, right? Or do you wanna sick some punks on one of us and see what happens?

If I have to move to Mexico afterward, I'll blame you guys. <g>

Ms. Bottimore, I heard your Dad is amazing, btw. I wish I could have met him while he ran the school. Are you guys still in the Sacto area?

 

"what we're trained to do in shou shu is defend our selves agianst punks, people that want to rob you, take your car, murder you so on and so forth. so a multi attack scenario would most likely be agianst a gang of thugs, "street fighters" who dont have the foggiest about anything that would actually hurt you on there own except guns or knives"

OK, the definition you give to a 'streetfighter' and/or someone who wants to rob or murder you is the problem that I am having, I am at an absolute loss in comprehending how anyone percieves that someone who more than likely routinely attacks and/or fights and hurts others, is easy meat.
On the other hand I can see how 'fights' which are simply contests, may possibly favour a martial arts trained person.
There is a great deal of difference between the two, ambush is not the same as semi-consentual.

 

This is another reason why I don't think you shou shu guys are not grounded in reality. You believe so much in your ability that you make what I believe are grossly misinformed opinions. Fights with people who intend to rob you or kill you are very ugly and very frightening. Of course it's good to avoid fights, but how can you make such opinions if you make them based on situations that are contrived?

A thug not educated in MA can still beat up a guy who is. 5 against 1 is too much to ask for any person, even if both sides are unarmed and stayed unarmed throughout the fight.

Having said that, I don't think any of you have ever faced a situation where the aggressors were quick and one is able to tackle you. Being enthusiastic about your MA is one thing, but making these kinds of claims is another. Testing this is simple, go join a club that specializes in MMA, agree upon rules that you will fight under (including legal issues), then go test your skills.

Overconfidence is always a bad thing. It makes you assess your skills and that of your aggresor inaccurately.

 

I personally have trained to fight against multiple opponents. The difference between me and you guys is that I DON'T believe I would win a fight against more than one opponent, unless I was very, very lucky.

Confidence can help you win.

Overconfidence can get you killed.

 

Regardless of what the SS guys claim - and I have to say that IMHO I do not believe them because I have found the linked footage to be no different than 30,000 other styles out there - why is it that they all have fundemental problems with language?

Words like "cuz" and "badazz" sound like bad quotes from "Wayne's World"

I don't know what the "10 punks" in the USA are like, but over here you ae a dead man walking when they jump you - 10 one 1 DOES NOT GO!

 

Oh No not this again! Poor Andy Murray is no doubt cringing at the strategies that he is going have to employ in order to stop a million MMa zealots from T*** F* etc coming over here and ripping you guys to shreds....

Don't you ever think about the consequences of your actions???!!!!
You do remember the last time this stuff poked it's head above the parapet right???

Reason no-one believes you? You are probably really nice people, but posts where you mention taking on six 'punks' who are out to maim or kill you, just
come across as the workings of the deluded mind of Role-Playing teenagers.

Whilst I have no doubt that a strong, physically fit and commited person can cause some serious damage to single or even in some cases multiple attackers, you guys don't convince me of your abilities

Ergo, A million 'Mongoose vs Custard Katas' do not a Fighter make.

In the words of the Bard 'It looks great, but can they Fight?'

 

I'd have to concur with the general consensus as I am unsure how you can confidently state that you would win in a violent confrontation with so many variable factors.

I can only assume that you would aim to inflict such damage on the first couple of opponents that the rest run away.

 

Look, I don't mean to sound patronising, but one of the reasons is that the majority of the people who have said this about the multiple opponent scenario are quite young - Im only 24 myself, but thankfully now understand the sense in experience; and I've never heard of ANY experienced MAist saying that they could take on 6 plus people. Moreover, they have all said that multiple opponents is a dangerous scenario, be it thugs/MAists, etc.

In fact, I don't think I've ever read anywhere in any history of any MA about any notable figure boasting about taking on more than one opponent - but that could just be me not knowing...

However, noting all of the above, you guys and gals come along and say 'oh yeah, Ill take on six punks in the street and drop 'em all in the blink of an eye with a smile on my face,' and then get offended when people start to quite obviously say 'how? Never been done before.'

Also, Im sure I read a post from one of the Shou Shu people who said if there is an alleyway close, run in there because its easier to take on less assailants - which goes against all the most common sense procedures that all MAists take; (or even the average Joe on the street.)
therefore, people do become slightly sceptical when these rather grandiose claims are made...

 

Take some advice.

The only rational function of this forum, is so we can all learn from and about each other.

Someone makes claims you disagree with?
So what!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, we just ask that it is expressed respectfully.

The only way you are going to change someones mind about something, is if they respect your opinion.
The only way someone is going to respect your opinion, is if you respect theirs.

 

Precisely.

 

I see what you're saying. But as Samuel L. Jackson says..."Allow me to retort..."

We don't fight six people at the same time. We will use tactics that we are taught day to day (granted, not from day one, you have to learn to crawl before you can walk, and you gotta jog before you run), first either to cut through the "circle" (get outside of the dudes surrounding you), or to explode the circle (if the dudes are close enough and you have trained enough, you blow them away so you can get outside of the circle; more difficult this is, which is why you don't start learning it until just before you are a black prep). I think my best bet would be to be aware of my surroundings so I don't get surrounding to such an extent that I have to explode any kind of circle because I'm much more proficient at cutting than I am at the latter, for obvious reasons (exploding takes massive speed, precision, timing, and training at a level I've not reached yet).

Anyway, once you've cut cut or exploded, we do not claim to just walk around and finish the dudes off with a smile on our face. Sometimes we might SAY that because bravado can take over virtually anyone, but don't insult our intelligence and say we don't know that confrontations on the street are not extremely frightening. I know many a hardened Shou Shouer at various different levels who can attest to just how frightening it is, but they have still prevailed, due majorly to their training in Shou Shu.

What we actually DO is continue to route out these people one by one by being in CONSTANT motion. If someone attacks you, your object is to defend in such a way that a) blocks the other assailants from you for a time b) utterly maims the first two guys so that, hopefully, the rest will now understand how screwed they are... (if you think this doesn't happen, think again...watching your buddy or partner get his eyes gouged out, arm broken, nose ripped or bitten off or knee inverted is no laughing matter).

But, get this. Do we think this is entirely full-proof? HELL NO! Especially since not all of us are at the same level of ability. Again, do not insult our intelligence. We are speaking of the art and how we train, not necessarily everyone who trains it from white to black. Obviously, you must train very hard and with a lot of focus to cultivate the skills of whichwe speak.

And get this, too...you know what else you can do after you've cut the circle or exploded it? Say that after you cut or explode, you realize your cardio-vascular capacity is not what it should be (which would be somewhat hard to believe because when my adrenaline is pumping, I don't give a damn about my lungs for a good 5 or 10 minutes), or that you are vastly outnumbered, or that the guys are positioned in such a way or you are in such a setting that is not favorable to beating the crap out of every last one of them (one or two at a time of course). Guess what you can do then, after cutting through them or exploding them?

RUN!

And I'll tell you right now...there is a time to maim six people. But there is also a time to run. Especially if the situation is something like they're trying to rape my girl and kill me. The object of the game then is not to kill all of them (as much as I would like to do), but to as soon as possible ensure the safety of my companion and a route for our escape. But, I've trained in a brutal and cruel martial art, and I will %&*$ING KILL anyone who gets in my path while on that certain double-mission. Get it? Got it? Good.

 

So you aim to be an indomitable fighter. Whether or not all the multiple attackers have the balls to stick around after you start your offensive is another matter. It's still an assumption, but I appreciate your stratergy.

 

OK STOP RIGHT THERE ALL OF YOU !!!!

i told you i didnt want this to turn into the big fight it always does. i dont know what you people want, we tell you we're trained to fight a group of people, you automatically think its grandmaster martial artists, so i try and clarify its thugs on the street and what, you cant handle that either, which by the way i never said it wasnt a dangerous senerio, of course it is! but thats what we're trained to handle.

i didnt put this thread here so you can come here and tell ME why shou shu doesnt work, so dont. if theres a problem you have ask "i dont understand how this and that works" and i or another shou shuer will (without making it sound like your trying to be superman please) try and help you to the best of our ability. and please remember you'll get further if your polite!!!