Shito-ryu Karate! What's Your Opinion On It?!

[fightorflight]

It's being taught right around the corner from me inwalking distance and it's cheap too! Can someone give me info on shito-ryu please, thanks!

[Kosokun]

What do you want to know?
Obviously, I think it's a superlative style. Something for everyone.
Who's teaching over there?


Rob

[Knight_Errant]

yet ANOTHER ryu of karate?
Sure, go along have a look.

[Kosokun]

Originally Posted by Knight_Errant

yet ANOTHER ryu of karate?
Sure, go along have a look.

Heheh. Not just another ryu. It's one of the first to have been recognized by the Dai Nippon Butoku Kai back in the 1930's.

There's a fair amount of historical info on the net. I'd look at Shitoryu.org
an excellent website.

Also worth a look is Soke Kenzo Mabuni's website
Japan Karate-do Kai Shito Ryu


Shitokai.com is also an excellent Shito Website.

Rob

[fightorflight]

These sites don't say what the style consists of, it only gives a history. Is it a hard style or soft style? Do you blend into attacks or do you go toe to toe? What is the style of shito-ryu like?

[Knight_Errant]

Go and have a look, man. Then tell US. Sounds like an OK style- but the dojo near you may be an exception. Visit it and find out.

[Jeanne]

Shito-Ryu is actually the best style I've encountered! It's actually soft and hard since it includes naha-te and shuri-te katas. I don't know how the dojo is where you are but it must definetly be an exception, cause shito-ryu is just awesome!!

Jeanne

[mikelw]

Originally Posted by fightorflight

It's being taught right around the corner from me inwalking distance and it's cheap too! Can someone give me info on shito-ryu please, thanks!

I've got just the thing:

The 5 Principles of Shito Ryu defense.

Teni
Taisabaki (footwork). Shifting or turning quickly out of the opponent's way.
Ryusui
Soft blocking. Redirecting a strong attack with a circular or deflecting parry.
Raka
Hard blocking. Striking an off-center or indirect attack with sudden maximum power
Hangeki
Defense as attack. A good defense is offense.
Kushin
Springing. A reflexive, darting "out and in" kind of body shifting from any angle


Shito ryu utilizes both hard and soft techniques. It's a pretty good style for fighting if you adapt it (but then what would you expect from me? i do shito ryu, lol)

[DAT]

Shito ryu is one of the originals but in my opinion would not be my first choice, that's of course if you have comparable senseis and schools in other arts. Shito has a little bit of Goju and Shotokan and in some styles some Fukien White Crane. My problem with Shito (and some other Japanese styles) is that it has little or no tuite or standup grappling/chin-na. Since the Japanese used to train in Jujutsu and Karate, their joint manipulation, throws and chokes were usually trained in Jujutsu. However in recent times some Shito-ryu lineages have incorporated some tuite type training in order to appeal to those interested in street wise self defense. The other thing I don't like about Shito is the fact that it is very kata intensive, I mean up to 45 before Shodan.

In summation, pros...it is a very traditional art with a strong lineage...cons it's a little too kicky punchy for me and I'm not into THAT many katas! Having said all that, if you have a world class sensei close to you that teaches Shito you should go with the best teacher around regardless of style. Good training is good training.

[Kosokun]

DAT,

You're mistaken in your understanding of Shito Ryu, in what it contains, or is missing.

Originally Posted by DAT

Shito ryu is one of the originals but in my opinion would not be my first choice, that's of course if you have comparable senseis and schools in other arts. Shito has a little bit of Goju and Shotokan and in some styles some Fukien White Crane.

No, it absolutely does not have any shotokan in it. If anything, it's the other way around. As Nakayama himself said, Funakoshi sent Nakayama to Mabuni to learn some kata (Niseishi/Gojushiho in particular).

If one had to pick two styles to compare Shito Ryu with, it'd be Shorin Ryu and Goju. Even then, that's just for comparisons sake, as Mabuni wasn't Miyagi's student, but a collegue and classmate under Higaonna.

My problem with Shito (and some other Japanese styles) is that it has little or no tuite or standup grappling/chin-na.

This is also a mistaken impression. Much of what we do, between the movements, in kata analysis and application involves joint manipulation and striking vital areas. However, we don't do jujitsu (well, maybe some of the shito kai guys do) and we also don't tend to buy into the magic and mystical pressure point concepts that are reminiscent of "Eric Von Zipper" in the old Beach Blanket Babylon movies.

Since the Japanese used to train in Jujutsu and Karate, their joint manipulation, throws and chokes were usually trained in Jujutsu. However in recent times some Shito-ryu lineages have incorporated some tuite type training in order to appeal to those interested in street wise self defense.

We've always had those things. Granted we didn't shout it from the rooftops, but we're hadly Johnny-come-latelys.

The other thing I don't like about Shito is the fact that it is very kata intensive, I mean up to 45 before Shodan.

Wow, that's ridiculous! The shito groups that I'm aware of don't do that!
Where'd you get that number?
Our own association requires
5 Pinans, Jutte, Jion, Bassai Dai, Kosokun Dai, Seienchin and two more,of the examinee's choice, for Shodan. That's only 12. Certainly one can learn much more but one doesn't have to.

In summation, pros...it is a very traditional art with a strong lineage...cons it's a little too kicky punchy for me and I'm not into THAT many katas!

That's your personal choice, but please remember that the vast majority of Shito Ryu schools aren't as extreme as evidently the ones you've come in contact with.

Having said all that, if you have a world class sensei close to you that teaches Shito you should go with the best teacher around regardless of style. Good training is good training.

This last bit is indeed excellent advice.

Rob Alvelais, Shihan
Shito Ryu Karate-do

[DAT]

No I think I have it down pretty good. You probably don't practice one of the orthodox Shito systems. As you know all systems begin to reflect their respective sensei. There is nothing nessesarily wrong with that but it is fact. And as far as tuite goes don't take my word for it go argue that with an Okinawan Karate/Kempo man. Your particular lineage may have added some joint manipulation down the line but traditional Mabuni contains very little. The same goes for kata. Shito systems in the North America routinely remove kata. But Mabuni was fiendish about kata and in the current culture we live in it would be hard to find a student dedicated to learn and perform the orginal number of kata. I will agree with you on the Shorin connection. However history tells us again and again tha there is a Shotokan connection that cannot be denied. Finally, I hope you don't think I was slamming or misrepresenting Shito-ryu. If you are a Shihan in Shito-ryu than you have taken a long and admirable journey. Below please find an excerpt of what I understand Shito to be including the vast array of traditional kata.



Of all the traditional karate systems Shotokan, Goju-ryu, Wado-ryu, Shorin-ryu, Kyokushin, Isshin-ryu, and Shito-ryu among them Shito-ryu remains the most obscure. Several of its leading practitioners, such as the charismatic Fumio Demura and the prolific Touro Hayashi, do have widespread fame, yet Shito-ryu remains little understood outside its own schools. Shito-ryu had been most often described as a combination of Shotokan and Goju-ryu. It is also generally known that its teachers utilize formal exercises (kata) from many Okinawan sources. Unfortunately, such explanations fail to adequately describe just what Shito-ryu really is.
In truth, Shito-ryu, along with Goju-ryu, Wado-ryu and Shotokan, is one of the four major karate systems of Japan proper (the Japanese islands excluding Okinawa). It was founded by Kenwa Mabuni (1889-1952), who, like most of karate’s old masters, was descended from Okinawa’s so-called warrior (bushi) class or aristocracy. Members of his family served Okinawan lords for hundreds of years. Mabuni started karate training at the age of 13 under Anko Itosu (1830-1915), the man who organized early karate in the Okinawan school system. Itosu was a student of one of Okinawa’s most famous karate masters, Sokon Matsumura (1792-1887), the forefather of Shorin-ryu. Itosu took a strong liking to his young pupil and Mabuni learned some 23 kata before the elder man died. Itosu’s death so grieved Mabuni that he built a shrine in front of the master’s grave and stayed close by for a year, practicing his kata daily.
Itosu was not Mabuni’s only teacher, however. While still in his teens, Mabuni was introduced by his friend, Chojun Miyagi (the founder of Goju-ryu karate) to Kanryo Higashionna (1853-1915). From Higashionna, Mabuni learned Naha-te, a Chinese-influenced karate style. Mabuni also trained under the reclusive Arakaki Kamadeunchu (1840-1918), who taught a style similar to Higashionna’s. Arakaki also taught Tsuyoshi Chitose, the founder of Chito-ryu, Gichin Funakoshi of Shotokan, and Kanken Toyama of the Shudokan school. Arakaki, who was an acknowledged bo (staff) expert, taught Mabuni the unshu, sochin, niseishi, arakaki-sai and arakaki-bo forms. During the 1920’s the insatiable Mabuni participated in a karate club operated by Miyagi and Choyu Motobu, with help from Chomo Hanashiro and Juhatsu Kiyoda. Choyu Motobu was a master of Shuri-te (the antecedent of Shorin-ryu) and gotende, the secret grappling art of the Okinawan royal court. Hanashiro was also a Shuri-te expert, while Kiyoda came from the same Naha-te background as Miyagi. Known as the Ryukyu Tode Kenkyu-kai (Okinawa Karate Research Club), this dojo (training hall) was one of history’s gems. Experts from diverse backgrounds trained and taught there, and it was there that Mabuni learned some Fukien white crane kung fu from the legendary Woo Yin Gue, a Chinese tea merchant living on Okinawa.
Technically, the karate of most Shito-ryu factions looks pretty much the same. Not surprisingly, there are minor differences in the kata between the various groups, mostly due to the proclivities of their founders. Regardless, all Shito-ryu looks a lot like Shorin-ryu in application. A long, linear style, even its Goju-ryu-type kata (those derived from Higashionna) are performed in a lighter, more angular and rangy fashion than they are in schools derived from Naha-te alone. Shito-ryu is much like Shotokan in that it relies heavily on the reverse punch and front kick. The style also seems to place a strong emphasis on sparring. In so doing, Shito-ryu stresses speed, and fighting is generally initiated from a higher, more upright stance than Shotokan employs. On the other hand, because the style has so many kata, a great deal of time is spent perfecting any one of its 40 to 60 forms.
KATA

KIHON KATA

HEIKO DACHI KIHON KATA

1. Heiko Dachi Dai Itch:
2. Heiko Dachi Dai Ni:
3. Heiko Dachi Dai San:
4. Heiko Dachi Dai Shi:

NEKOASHI DACHI KIHON KATA

1. Nekoashi Dachi Dai Itch:
2. Nekoashi Dachi Dai Ni:
3. Nekoashi Dachi Dai San:
4. Nekoashi Dachi Dai Shi:

ZENKUTSU DACHI KIHON KATA

1. Zenkutsu Dachi Dai Itch:
2. Zenkutsu Dachi Dai Ni:
3. Zenkutsu Dachi Dai San:
4. Zenkutsu Dachi Dai Shi:

SHITO-RYU HONGATA

PINAN SHODAN
PINAN NIDAN
PINAN SANDAN
PINAN YONDAN
PINAN GODAN
JUROKU
JITTE
JIIN
JION
MATSUKAZE
ROHAI
WANSHU
BASSAI DAI
BASSAI SHO
CHINTE
CHINTO
KENSHO
KENSHU
AOYAGI
KOSOKUN DAI
KOSOKUN SHO
SHIHO KOSOKUN
NAIHANCHI
GOJUSHIHO
(Itosu-Ke)

(PEACEFUL MIND 1)
(PEACEFUL MIND 2)
(PEACEFUL MIND 3)
(PEACEFUL MIND 4)
(PEACEFUL MIND 5)
(16)
(TEMPLE HAND or TEN HANDS)
(TEMPLE GROUND)
(TEMPLE SOUND)
(PINE TREE WIND)
(VISION OF A CRANE)
(NAME of a CHINESE EMISSARY)
(TO PENETRATE A FORTRESS, major version)
(TO PENETRATE A FORTRESS, minor version)
(WINNING HANDS or CALMNESS)
(SETTLING/FIGHTING to the EAST)
(Mabuni-Ke 1947)
(Mabuni-Ke 1949)
(GREEN WILLOW Mabuni-Ke 1941)
(CHINESE MILITARY ATTACHE, major version)
(CHINESE MILITARY ATTACHE, minor version)
(Mabuni-Ke "four direction version")
(INSIDE MOVING)
(54 STEPS)

SHITO-RYU HONGATA

SANCHIN
TENSHO
SHINSEI
SEIENCHIN
SHINPA
HAPPO SHO
KURURUNHA
SAIHA
SEISAN
SEIPAI
NISEISHI
SOCHIN
SHISOCHIN
UNSHU
SUPARINPEI
NIPAIPO
(Higaonna-Ke)

(THREE BATTLES or CONFLICTS)
(ROLLING PALMS)
(PURE HEART Mabuni-Ke 1936)
(CALM WITHIN the STORM)
(NEW BREAK or TEAR Mabuni-Ke)
(EIGHT WALK Mabuni-Ke 1949)
(COME, STOP, TEAR / BREAK)
(FINAL BREAK or TEAR)
(13)
(18)
(24)
(MEN "MONKS" of PEACE)
(FOUR CALM MONKS)
(CLOUD HAND)
(108)
(28 STEPS)

[Kosokun]

Originally Posted by DAT

No I think I have it down pretty good. You probably don't practice one of the orthodox Shito systems. As you know all systems begin to reflect their respective sensei. There is nothing nessesarily wrong with that but it is fact. And as far as tuite goes don't take my word for it go argue that with an Okinawan Karate/Kempo man. Your particular lineage may have added some joint manipulation down the line but traditional Mabuni contains very little. The same goes for kata.

That’s rather interesting. Thanks for the info. Next time that Kenzo Mabuni comes over to teach us again, I’ll be sure to tell him to stop showing us that stuff, as it’s apparently not “orthodox” Shito. You see, that’s one place where I get my info. The other source is from his various Hanshi. I don’t rely on the often erroneous stuff on the web.

However history tells us again and again tha there is a Shotokan connection that cannot be denied.

Certainly, there’s a connection. Mr. Nakayama, the late head of the JKA told Randall Hassel about it in his book, “Conversations with the Master: an interview with Masatoshi Nakayama” Mr. Nakayama said that he was sent to Mr. Mabuni to learn kata. It wasn't the other way around. The kata from Shito Ryu were incorporated into the Shotokan’s (JKA) syllabus. The kata of Shotokan were not incorporated into Shito Ryu,

Rob

[YounGrasshopper]

Ask Nikki86 About it....i think she might do it.........

[tempo]

Originally Posted by DAT

The other thing I don't like about Shito is the fact that it is very kata intensive, I mean up to 45 before Shodan.

This is absurd. Where did you read that they make you learn 45 kata before shodan?

[DAT]

OK I guess these two sites are not reputable????????

www.shito-ryu.org

www.genbu-kai.com

Hey fellows I'm not here to argue with what I know is fact. If you want to study 12 kata and call that traditional Shito-ryu then go right ahead. And if you think you are doing tuite ala Okinawan Karate/Kempo I don't know what to say.
If I may, go to E.budo.com and present your Shito tuite/kata theory. I suspect Gene Williams will give you all the info you need. BTW...Budo is a very intelligent reputable forum. Check it out, I think you'll like it. Especially if you're into traditional Okinawan/Japanese arts.