Whats soo wrong

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Cougar_v203, Apr 13, 2004.

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  1. Cougar_v203

    Cougar_v203 4th surgery....Complete!

    Whats so wrong with self teaching yourself? I know you don't get the benefits of learning the correct way of performing a technique but it makes you try it over and over again.
    P.s- for those that don't know I have taken classes before so you can get that thought out of your head ;)
     
    Cougar_v203, Apr 13, 2004
    #1
  2. Poop-Loops

    Poop-Loops Banned Banned

    Because you have no idea what you are doing, and you end up doing it bad, which does more harm than good.

    PL
     
    Poop-Loops, Apr 13, 2004
    #2
  3. shinguards

    shinguards Valued Member

    if teaching yourself is what you want to do then go for it, but a word of warning - you're only learning by yourself, so you only get your own perspective on things, self defence and sparring would be a bit hard...
     
    shinguards, Apr 13, 2004
    #3
  4. spacepimp

    spacepimp Valued Member

    problems with self self-self-defense (you could go blind!!!)

    The probelms with teaching yourself self defense is various. One you do not have an interactive partner to work with. another is no-one to tell you when you are doing things wrong, and more importantly how to correct those mistakes.
     
    spacepimp, Apr 13, 2004
    #4
  5. T_T

    T_T New Member

    The phrase "practice makes perfect" is a misconception,

    "perfect practice makes perfect",

    Doing something wrong in training is not going to do you any good. Without someone who knows what there doing to correct you and supervise id guesse youd get more wrong than right. Self teaching is not something i would advise. However if you have taken classes and want to simply practice / train alone then this could be beneficial however wouldnt expect a massive improvement in skill through this method of training though. A full understanding of a similar martial art by an experienced practicioner may enable self teaching techniques to be effective, but as i said i think you would have to be experienced in the first place.

    TT
     
    T_T, Apr 13, 2004
    #5
  6. Knight_Errant

    Knight_Errant Banned Banned

    please, please stop it.

    what all they said, plus:
    if you never bother to go to a class, you'll never have a gold-standard to compare what you're doing at home too, and you'll lack vital sparring experience and the guideing hand of an experienced instructor. Stuff you've learnt does get rusty over time. You need to get out there and keep on refreshing your memory by comparing your abillities against those of your peers.
    Plus, you'll smell funny.
    Why would you voluntarily cripple your own learning experience in this way? especially when there are so many classes around these days.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2004
    Knight_Errant, Apr 13, 2004
    #6
  7. Topher

    Topher allo!

    Your Bio:
    'Most of the martial arts i've taken i've self taught and for those that think its bad well your wrong. no offense though'

    How can you say others are wrong?
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2004
    Topher, Apr 14, 2004
    #7
  8. CiNdY

    CiNdY New Member

    its like trying to teach yourself violin... when you think about it it seems not so bad of an idea, its way too overwhelming without having something to compare to and instruct you... not to mention you could seriously injure yourself in ma :D

    but im still new so.. heh.
     
    CiNdY, Apr 14, 2004
    #8
  9. Poop-Loops

    Poop-Loops Banned Banned

    MA is a science. It's a way of perfecting technique through trial and error, and research. Like any science (math, biology, physics), you simply cannot teach it to yourself through the use of a text book. You might start to somewhat catch on, but until you actually practice through sparring, you won't actually understand any of it.

    PL
     
    Poop-Loops, Apr 14, 2004
    #9
  10. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    "a little knowledge is dangerous"
    you'd do more harm to yourself.
     
    shootodog, Apr 14, 2004
    #10
  11. Monty

    Monty Valued Member

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with teaching yourself .... but only after a certain level of understanding the basic terms and physics.

    One shouldn't pick up martial arts to begin with, just from reading books and watching videos. But once you've had a reasonable amount of proper training, learning new (maybe even similar) techniques from the media shouldn't really do any harm.
     
    Monty, Apr 22, 2004
    #11
  12. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    It's simple. Repetition alone won't make you better. Making tiny little adjustments and refining your practice will make you better. And that's not going to work for you. 1) You don't have the technical background to know what those adjustments should be and 2) you're not getting any feedback from partners. Your blocking may look perfect to your eye. But your eye isn't expert AND it doesn't make any difference how it looks if you can't actually block with it. Do you know whether you can block with it?
     
    ap Oweyn, May 4, 2004
    #12
  13. Xio

    Xio Controlled Chaos

    I just have to disagree with almost all of you and say that Teaching yourself can be a good thing. It may be really hard and like you all said can be dangerous, but all you have to do is take it slow and think about stuff before you run in and hurt yourself. A basic understanding of MA anatomy can help but might restrict your thinking. Finding things out for yourself is a good learning experience.
    When learning from an instructor you will only be following, not making your own decisions. You will get told how to do things while not thinking and finding them out for yourself.
    I'm learning the art of using 2 swords at once from myself.
    You guys may think that the blocks and stuff might not work but all you have to do is think about it properly before you try it.
    Just think about it, didn't people create all MA existing today. People are capable of such things.

    /Xio
     
    Xio, May 8, 2004
    #13
  14. Mike Flanagan

    Mike Flanagan Valued Member

    If you went to a real teacher you would still have the opportunity to "try it over and over again". Just because you train in a school of some sort doesn't mean you shouldn't do plenty of practice at home.

    I have done quite a bit of training on my own. When doing this you ultimately realise that you need a teacher and training partners to help you progress.

    If you were serious about it, you'd find a teacher, simple as that.

    Mike
     
    Mike Flanagan, May 8, 2004
    #14
  15. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    There's a good reason why most experienced martial artists say that self teaching is a bad thing: they've seen people try before. As you mention, it's dangerous. But not only that, it quite often drills bad (or at least sloppy) technique into you. You may think you're learning this 2-sword style quite well, but I'm sure if you went to a Niten-Ichi-Ryu school you'd see just how much precision goes into swordwork that you CANNOT correct on your own.

    Yes, generally the basic understanding will restrict your thinking, but generally in a good way so that you will know what works and what doesn't. Without restricting your thoughts in this way, you have nothing to base your techniques from, and will therefore come up with stuff that has no basis in reality. A working knowledge of at least one martial arts is necessary before even attampting to do something on your own, and even then it's not too likely to succeed if the arts are different (eg: karate black belt trying to teach himself Judo or swordwork would probably fail, but he might have some luck at TaeKwonDo)

    If you train under a good instructor you will learn basics for a long time, then will learn to link together those basics in various ways. After a while the instructor merely guides your mind in new directions for linking together basics. Then you pressure test all of it to find out what works for you .

    If you teach yourself, you don't even get the basics right. Linking together sloppy techniques will lead to sloppy combinations.

    Why have we had so many of these posters lately? I'm going to make my position very clear here:

    Trying to teach yourself martial arts from scratch will NEVER lead to you being a true master, especially if your techniques have no basis in reality.

    If you really think otherwise, then fine, just don't try to pass off how good that type of training is, you will be proved wrong by people who have actually worked hard for their ability in the martial arts.
     
    Aegis, May 8, 2004
    #15
  16. neryo_tkd

    neryo_tkd Valued Member


    Do I need to say more?
     
    neryo_tkd, May 8, 2004
    #16
  17. Xio

    Xio Controlled Chaos

    Aegis,
    sure you gave me quite a telling but you didn't happen to answer or critisise the remark:

    I am saying that if you think about it properly you will find and understand things for yourself. true mastery of anything in life spurs from true mastery of oneself.
    The 2 sword style, is not actually a style cause i'm making it up as i go along. Replacing Hand-to-hand low section blck with my own low section block with weapons. Do you understand?
    To learn anything for yourself you have to consider all posibilities. Visualise an opponents attack and create your own form of defence for yourself. What may work for some people may not work for you.

    OK, now right a really long post again and critisise me. :p
    /Xio
     
    Xio, May 8, 2004
    #17
  18. Aegis

    Aegis River Guardian Admin Supporter

    OK, luckily for you KGirl pointed me in the direction of this post, as it happened to slip through my otherwise good "controversial post" detector ;)

    I've answered this on another thread, but I'll repeat it here:

    In martial arts you have a thinking opponent who is not going to be predictable to you without a lot of experience in what to look for before certain attacks. Even then you have feints designed to mislead your opponent. It is not possible to sit around and make up a new system based on what you think an opponent will do, chances are they think differently from you. For example, a straight punch. Fairly simple direct attack in a straight line, right? Well, for most people yes, but I train with a couple of people who have curved "straight" punches, either slightly roundhouse or hooking inwards then out. Very effective against what should defend against a straight punch, so I altered my defence. Now I can deal with it more easily. Without actually training with these people I would never have foudn out the weakness in my technique. You need a firm grounding in a style before you can start adding to it, or you will be lacking even the most fundamental principles of self defence.

    The ultimate first teacher(s) of my style(s) were men who had been to war and survived, or who had been in other fights and survived. They brought the techniques used to defend themselves home and started a school to pass them on to others. They may have been self taught in that they used some established techniques in a different way, or used something different than everything seen so far, but what marks them as special wasn't that they made something up and gave it a name, but that they continually survived by using their techniques. Until you can say the same, don't try comparing yourself to them.

    My advice to anyone getting this far in the thread is not to go for the easy option: it eventually leads to a much less worthwhile goal. Train hard at a good dojo and you will fight easier if you ever get in trouble. Train easily at home or in a bad dojo and you may be in for a shock when your self defence doesn't work.

    I wrote all that a short while ago on a slightly different subject, but it is still relevant. If there's any further area you'd like me to elaborate on, feel free to ask.
     
    Aegis, May 8, 2004
    #18
  19. Xio

    Xio Controlled Chaos

    Thanx Kgirl.I wouldn't want to miss an exciting argument. :D

    OK. What i mean to say is that what's to say people today aren't capable of creating styles of their own. What if you have been involved in violence on the street and you decide to teach yourself to defend yourself. Isn't that possible. And isn't it possible to create your own basic priciples for your own bodystyle and your style will be an invention of your mind.

    I'm certainly not saying that everyone should go and swing their arms around and say, "hey, I just created Martial arts". Cause proper thinking has to go into it before you actually practise it. Create your own phyosophies and test them to reality, apply your principles in any experience, and change them to fit your own experiences.

    No one can know something without testing it in reality.

    OK, gimme a mouthful, I'm ready! :D
    /Xio
     
    Xio, May 9, 2004
    #19
  20. Saz

    Saz Nerd Admin

    Anytime! :D
     
    Saz, May 9, 2004
    #20
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