Has anybody else studied or come across Kuk Sool Won? Having failed to find any Hapkido training near Sussex, I thought I was fortunate enough to stumble on its sibling, Kuk Sool Won. The art was exactly what I was looking for: a beautiful combination of throws, locks and all manner of strikes. However, I left the class really concerned about the standard of the instructors and indeed all the ranks I saw. Could I have stumbled on a McDojo in the UK? Perhaps my first impression was wrong. If not, then I am deeply saddened by what has happened to the martial arts. Edited to say that my concerns were: - students and instructors appeared out of shape - techniques displayed by those at senior levels (1st degree black belt) seemed to lack fluidity and even familiarity - testing did not appear rigourous (albeit at a very junior belt, which is all I saw) - bag work was of a low standard - senior grades' kicks looked the same standard as junior grades elsewhere
My brother has a friend who attends one in Leicester. I've heard nothing but ravings from my brother from the contents of the art, through the practice at the Dojo to the 6 hours gradings... Might be good, only it's 2 bus rides away and I can't drive so it's something to think about "one day". What difference is there in Hapkido?
I was not impressed with what little of it I have seen.I think world headquarters are located here in TX. Seems like great school if looking for a family activity, fitness. If youre looking for realistic fighting skills, maybe not.
From what I've read and seen through video tapes the two arts are very similar. However, I think on average Kuk Sool stresses more acrobatic falling then most Hapkido schools do. Like hand springs and flips. Other than that I'm not really sure, there might be some different types of weapons covered in each.
It's sad to see someone else reflecting my disappointment of Kuk Sool. What did you see and with what weren't you impressed? Though Strafio's reply suggests that, as usual, it could be down to the instructor rather than the style. My only other guess/explanation is that Kuk Sool Won stylists aim to learn practically every technique of the traditional Korean arts. So they could easily end up knowing a lot of techniques to a minimum standard, as opposed to mastering a smaller number of techniques. The world HQ is indeed in Texas. I do wonder why this was the case rather than Korea.
i know this is REALLY old, but i've been to that exact class!!!!!!!!!! it really made me cringe. luckily a mate of a mate is half decent at it, but only because he practises like a maniac at home. but i agree with all the rest. i am ashames of myself though because straight away i blamed the art...and i hate it when people do that. the teacher must be to blame (sorry P.H.) as he didn't seem to encourage the students to work harder or discipline them. he is a 7th dan therefore does his own gradings, so i guess thats why they all pass...anyway, late opinion but hey! i had to say so cos i have been to that exact class.
I'll give everyone a quick run down of KSW, and try to keep my post brief :-D KSW is indeed a sibling of Hapkido. It is a comprehensive system of locks, throws, strikes and weapons. They both really originated close to the same time. I seriously doubt you would have stumbled upon a McDojang simply because the licenses for instructors are obtained differently than most arts. You get a license to teach in an area as issued by the headquarters as opposed to just a certificate to instruct anywhere. This is to keep from having competing KSW schools from opening up. That being said, I cannot attest to the quality of the instructor. I know there are a couple of really good Masters in the UK, but I do not know where their schools are located. Here's a list of UK schools: http://www.kuksoolwon.com/schools03.html Like any other MA you will find schools in which the instructors aren't great. I live in Indiana right now, and I study under a 3rd Dan (pu sah bum nihm). He is an outstanding instructor. He's always pushing us to work hard all the time, especially on our own time as well. If you're interested in learning more about KSW, PM me and I can go into more depth. I hope this helps out a bit.
I've been studying Kuk Sool Won for almost 3 years now and I love it. Kuk Sool (at least at my school) freely states that everyone must do their personal best. That is different for everyone. You may see two students (even senior students) who are the same rank with quite different skill levels. Each person is capable of only so much. Some are more flexible than others and some can do techniques better than others. The point is that (hopefully) each student gives their best. It's up to the student to do their best and it's also up to the instructor to try to push them to achieve more. When it comes to testing for black belt though, only one man can give the ok for that one. Grand Master In Hyuk Suh is the only one who tests students for black belt. If he feels they earned it then they get it. He must have believed that student gave his/her personal best. Any other questions, feel free to PM me too! Justin
Yes, there is Hapkido n Sussex! Sandy, where abouts in Sussex are you. I train HKD in Crawley, along with TKD. As far as I know, there are no other HKD schools in this part of the world, or at least they are keeping themselves pretty underground. My instructor is a 6th dan Jidokwan TKD, 3rd Dan Moo Hak Kwan HKD & very traditional (in the sense we train for combat, not tournaments!) The HKD classes are starting to take off more than TKD at the moment, but most of us train both styles. We are under Grandmaster Sung Soo Lee 9th Dan in both arts and members of the British Hapkido Federation. GM Lee is coming over from Australia in May to conduct seminars, so if you're interested in coming down, drop us a line. As for KSW, from what I've seen (on one of those Paris demonstrations on Eurosport), the art is no way McDojang, I can't vouch for the schools you've seen though! It certainly was acrobatic - loads of diving breakfalls etc, but it's core techniques were basically HKD, with a bit of a Chinese flavour to my eyes. However, I remember 1 KSW school gave David Beckham an honourary black belt before the last World cup, even though he's never trained in the art. I wouldn't let that put you off looking for a good school though.
Downstroke: I'd be interested to know which school did this. Unless they got permission from our headquarters in houston (that is where our one and only GM is) - which I would think is highly unlikely as our GM approves all BB promotions in person - that would be a gross violation of WKSA regulations as I know them.
http://www.lowestoftkuksoolwon.co.uk/ksw2004/article_beckhams.htm I remember seeing a documentary about this at the time & my jaw dropped! It was just before the last world cup & the Bechams held a party for the England team (& the media as well of course) that was Oriental themed. Under normal circumstances anything about footie will put me to sleep, but then I saw these KSW practitioners demonstrating in the grounds of the Beckams house. At the time I thought good for them, it's nice to see one of the less mainstream arts getting some coverage, but when I saw the story in the paper about David Beckam getting his 'honourary' bb, that killed it for me. Don't worry though, I certainly don't regard this story as being reflective as KSW as a whole.
Yeah, as always, it's the teacher not the art. However, I'm reassured that I'm not going mad and it was indeed a poor class. I guess Kuk Sool Won standards are sadly very low in Sussex. Perhaps one the Houston-connected MAPers should pass this onto HQ. Who knows what a visit from Grand Master In Hyuk Suh might achieve, although sadly the Sussex instruction that Cavallin and I experienced may be beyond fixing. Very sad for the martial arts. Many thanks for the HKD Crawley recommendation. I'm a bit too far away and now happy where I train, but appreciate the recommendation. Cheers everyone, Sandy
I just read the article. As a practitioner of KSW who has worked diligently to attain the rank of Jo Kyo Nym (almost there just couple weeks), I'm kind of offended by this. I would like to know what Mr. Beckham did to earn this belt other than be famous. I emailed my instructor to see if he knew about it, and if the WKSA makes a habit of this.
I found this in another forum regarding an honorary belt handed to "Big Daddy Goodridge" for the UFC. I'm not sure of the accuracy of this interview, but here it is: 'Gary Goodridge: Well, there was a Kuk Sool Won club in my area, and I told them I wanted to go into the UFC. They had a little 158 pound guy that wanted to go as well. They had a little donation thing to help this guy out too. Now, people are coming in to support the gym or whatever, giving change here and there trying to help this guy go to the UFC. I was thinking "This guy's 158 pounds!" And at the time, the UFC didnt have weight classes. He just wanted to go and try to beat up somebody. So, I'm 260, 275 lbs at the time, and I'm thinking, "You know, I could wrap this guy up into a pretzel and have him down on the grass sucking himself off in no time at all!" So I said "You know what, I'll beat up your boy, then I want all that money, and I'm going to the UFC!" So we had a little sparring session, and of course, I was on top of him all the time. I didn't know what do to, I was just on top of him. So we just wrestled around until we got tired. Gary Goodridge celebrates after his win in the recent 2 Hot 2 Handle show. So they said, "Are you goin to the UFC?" I said, "Yeah, I applied." They told me if I got in I could represent them, and they'd give me a 4th degree black belt. I said "No problem! I want it legal though, I want the paperwork." So they got me the paperwork for it from the Grand Pubah of Kuk Sool Won, from Korea, and he let me know I was the man. And about a month and 12 days later I was fighting in the UFC! Sherdog.com: Wow, that's incredible. You wore the gi, was that part of the deal? Gary Goodridge: I started training at the [Kook Sul Won] place about a month and a half before the UFC, and I started training in a gi, because Royce Gracie was in a gi. I was trying to assimilate what he was doing. My background was as a puncher, I'm a striker. I was trying to assimilate the gi, which was a far cry from what I should have done, but I didn't know that at the time. I thought "Hey, I'm a grappling expert!" So I went in the gi because thats all I had trained in. Sherdog.com: So how long did you actually train that discipline? Gary Goodridge: Kuk Sool Won? I may have trained a class or so. Sherdog.com: Heh, so there was no Kuk Sool Won in the UFC huh? Gary Goodridge: No.' I think it makes the art look cheap. I know all the JKN @ my dojang have worked diligently for that title. However, I did see the UFC knockouts video that had Goodridge in the Kuk Sool dobak, so what gives?
supposedly the club that gave him the 4th degree was a school in Canada that had broken away from the WKSA before they copyrighted the name in Canada. So this had nothing to do with the WKSA - as far as I'm aware Kuk Sa Nim did not authorise this. As for the Beckham thing - it was an honourary black belt. Its not as if he can call himself a Jkn. Its a token gift not a "real" black belt!
hrh prince charles the prince of wales also has an honary b belt. bear in mind the "honary" word, it's just like giving some one the keys to the city (which has happened to kuk sa nim quite a lot) or on honary doctorate/title. it is just a symbol of thanks and not an actual ranking b belt. p.s there are no bad martial arts, just bad martial artists/instructors.
I don't know that I quite agree with both sides of your analogy. The keys to the city, yes, but the honary doctorate, not quite. Usually an "honary" is given to someone who has had significant impact in something. For example, giving an honorary degree in drama to a significant actor. You would not give an honorary doctorate of physics to a soccer player. Poking a little fun at the topic, maybe it would have been more appropriate to give these individuals the "Keys to the Dojang".
