BJJ and all the lineages i could find!

i was also wondering on the influence of catch and other arts. we know maeda had influences from other arts during his time travelling and fighting. and kimura had catch influences (unsure if that was later though).

but the influences of other arts and experience in challenge matches on the gracies (except Rolls, who made the current form of BJJ more all rounded in grappling from training with wrestlers and Sambaists)

As for other BJJ lineages and crosstraining
Helio:

- Maeda = Gracie and Franca (I'm assuming most of you know the gracie and Franca story?)

- Takeo Yano = Non-maeda BJJ lineage teaching in the Caera Region. absorbed into Judo, Rodarte Correa, or GJJ, Jurandir Moura. Only ONE Lineage reamining; Master Francisco Sá. http://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/master-francisco-sa

- Geo Omori = Non-Maeda, Apparently took over Franca's training and taught Carlos Pereira (who was absorbed into Judo, but teaches his style of judo to BJJ players still) http://www.global-training-report.com/cartas.htm

- Ono Brothers - one choked out George Gracie, the other lost to George. Absorbed into judo later but when they first fought Helio they were teaching Jiu Jitsu in Brazil, in the Sao Paulo region away from le Gracies. A student called Octavio had strong skills enough from Ono for George to rank him instructor in under a year of GJJ training http://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/octavio-de-almeida-senior

DARK HORSE:
Ivan Gomes.

 

My two cents: Zbyszko was more successful as a Greco-Roman guy. He was a Catch guy the same way Hackenschmidt was- just barely. Competed under CACC rules a few times, but didn't really develop the skills associated with that form of wrestling, like guys like Gotch, Stecher, etc. did.

Also, I suspect you've seen this before, but also that it's relavent to the discussion:

http://13thtemple.wordpress.com/jiu...do-fadda-nova-uniao-and-non-gracie-jiu-jitsu/

 

yeah read that article before.
i have a friend who trains under ronny lis, a fadda lineage.

Yano, ono and omori are interesting as hell. BJJ under a completely unique non maeda lineages.

 

yeah. i should have said "famous catch wrestler by relation". his brother was a pretty impressive catch player with specific tactics into his fights. although cheap tactic with gama, fights a pehlwan and decides to hug the ground.

anyway enough off topic:

apparently Yano's student, Francisco Sá, is often credited under carlos gracie (im guessing that was his latest promotion or something), but he's a redbelt and is originally from Yano and BJJHeroes still lists that

 

Hm... there's a LOT of info on wiki at the moment on Maeda...

only 3 years under his belt, i'm sure they improvised a lot. thank god

HOLY CRAP

-Virgílio, Stanlei (2002) (in Portuguese). Conde Koma – O invencível yondan da história. Editora Átomo.
Hm... having a hard time finding this school.

Also very interesting:
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.corporesanoacademia.com.br%2Fhistoria-do-jiu-jitsu-brasileiro%2F&act=url

 

although i've found some acknowledged stuff on Yano, i cant find any on Bulison Osmar or Soishiro Satake.

Ivan Gomes is said to have been of a BJJ lineage, Gracie's speculate a gracie.

Soishiro Satake settled in brazil but i dont know if he taught

 

if takeo Yano/Iano learnt from Hashine/Hajine Isogai then that would place him from the Kansai region and the Botukukai - meaning his lineage would be judo through kano, although the Botukukai does have various arts taught there other than judo.

This link shows a nice picture of all those who joined Judo from other arts including Tanabe of fusen ryu and others. not relevant to BJJ lineages but it was it had a nice picture of some great fighters.
The joiners of judo

 

Okay...
I think this is important so i'm editing my OP to include info on Ivan Gomes and Satake.

 

i was also wondering on the influence of catch and other arts. we know maeda had influences from other arts during his time travelling and fighting. and kimura had catch influences (unsure if that was later though).

but the influences of other arts and experience in challenge matches on the gracies (except Rolls, who made the current form of BJJ more all rounded in grappling from training with wrestlers and Sambaists)

As for other BJJ lineages and crosstraining
Helio:

Acknowledged Lineages/ Verifiable
http://www.bjjlineage.com/Home/Tree

Kano (Kodokan Judo) -> Tomita (Kodokan Judo) -> Maeda (Combative Jiu Jitsu from his experience prize fighting and with training other styles) -> Carlos Gracie (Gracie Jiu Jitsu in Rio) and Luiz Franca (Franca/Fadda Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in the outskirts and suburbs of Rio) http://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-news/brazilian-jiu-jitsu
UNVERIFIED: Adolpho Corbinain (Boxer from barbados) http://judotradicionalgoshinjutsukan.blogspot.com/2009/08/mitsuyo-maeda-nasc.html

Kano (Kodokan Judo) -> Hajine (Botukukai Kansai Judo) -> Takeo Yano -> Francisco Sá (Sa BJJ, Caera Region). http://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/master-francisco-sa
Non-maeda BJJ lineage teaching in the Caera Region. absorbed into Judo, Rodarte Correa, or GJJ, Jurandir Moura. Only ONE Lineage remaining as Sa.
UNVERIFIED: Bulison/Biusse Osmar & Indio Indio

? (Possibly Kano, Judo) -> Kazuo Yoshida (?) -> Evaldo Luiz “Serrinha” (Bahia Brazilian Jiu Jitsu) > Humberto Silveira (Bahia Brazilian Jiu Jitsu).
Also Thiago Jacare (Judo) & the Carvalho Family (Judo & some BJJ under Gracie's although they already had distinct groundwork)
http://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/humberto-silveira-academia-shiozawa

Note Worthy Lineages (Mostly Absorbed in Judo)

Kano (Kodokan Judo) -> Satake (Judo/Combative Jiu Jitsu with Maeda, based in Manuas) -> Vinicius Raus (7th Dan Rio Judo organisation, Uncle to Marco) -> Marco Ruas (Ruas Vale Tudo/formerly luta livra, nephew to Vinicius) -> Joe Moreira (Ruas Vale Tudo Black Belt)
http://www.judoamazonas.com.br/?n=897&l=pt

? -> Geo Omori -> Carlos Pereira (judo - although teaches judo for BJJ to many top teams) and, partial, Franca.
Non-Maeda, Apparently took over Franca's training and taught Carlos Pereira (who was absorbed into Judo, but teaches his style of judo to BJJ players still and has a son who is a BJJ historian and, i think, 8th dan BJJ) http://www.global-training-report.com/cartas.htm

Kano (Kodokan Judo) & Possibly Maeda -> Ono Brothers (Judo/Jiu Jitsu, Sao Paulo Region) -> Moises Murad & Octavio Dea Almeida Senior (Gracie BJJ)
Ricardo Morgnati (Morganti Jiu Jitsu), Many many many brazilian judoka.
Story of the ono brothers in blackbelt mag
one choked out George Gracie, the other lost to George. Absorbed into judo later but when they first fought Helio they were teaching Jiu Jitsu in Brazil, in the Sao Paulo region away from le Gracies. A student called Octavio had strong skills enough from Ono for George to rank him instructor in under a year of GJJ training http://www.bjjheroes.com/bjj-fighters/octavio-de-almeida-senior

DARK HORSES (Unverified and Unappreciated):

Ivan Gomes (Ivan Gomes Style BJJ)
Claims to Lineage:
-> Jose Marie (BJJ under Jurandir Moura from Gracie & Yano Lineage)
-> Pedro Hemeterio (Gracie 9th dan)
-> Tatu (Luta Livra Founder)
-> Bulison/Biusse Osmar (Unverified Yano Lineage)

Roberto Leitão - The Helio Gracie of No-Gi Jiu Jitsu / Luta Livra
Judo and wrestling background, his focus on no-gi Judo developed what some call a catch-like flavour.
He's slick enough that now he's considered an expert in No-Gi and was the go to guy for Marco Ruas and now Nova Uniao.
http://www.graciemag.com/2011/08/master-leitao-expounds-on-leverage-in-grappling/

 

may get round to drawing a family tree to make it easier!

 

Hm...
it seems that there are more maeda students, one particularly involed in the gracie development:

Jacyntho/Jacintho Ferro

http://www.ibjjf.org/mentor.htm

http://www.bjjheroes.com/featured/oswaldo-gracie

http://www.revistas.udesc.br/index.php/tempo/article/viewFile/2315/1790
Interesting! Maeda taught everything as he learnt it from he fighting experience!
It seems the gracie's were involved in circus fights long before jiu jitsu came in!

there's also reference to Donatao Pires, apparently another more senior maeda student, had a fall out with carlos and stopped training with the gracie, saying to newspapers that what the gracies learnt was at best "an incomplete version of maedas system"

yay for gracie improv!

 

Very interesting and informative stuff!

 

Thank you!
I think it's important that everyone understand that bjj in its current form ALL links back to Gracie's and the quality and quantity of students tthey produced and the connections and orgs that formed from that

 

Bro, last time I remember you werent training in BJJ anymore, But running a rolling club instead, why the facination with Us?

 

Just out of interest!
Stopped training all together. Just Olympic lifting now.

Also thought it would be good to have a thread to refer noobs to and to help win internet arguments.
It's hard to find a complete listing of bjj lineages.

 

Fair enough, dont leave it too long before you pick it back up though, yea!

 

My worries exactly!
Will probably get back to it over Xmas.
My o-lift schedule clashes with bjj classes at the moment, pushing for less embarrassing maxes, but hopefully I'll make class next semester

Still insane to see that bjj has non-maeda lineages!

 

I think that this should be sticked for pure effort and educational value! Thanks Zaad

 

Think I'll probably make. MAP article. I wanna draw up a flow chart first.
Will help settle the BJJ is just judo, the Gracie's made bjj, bjj isn't jiu jitsu, who is this guy who didn't train under a Gracie arguments and questions.

The bjj sub forum will probably get insanely boring though.

 

great effort on the documentation. you rock dude!