budokwai chelsea, Koryu.

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Counter Assault, May 21, 2012.

  1. Counter Assault

    Counter Assault Valued Member

    Hey So i had a good chat with dean winchester about koryu.

    and i investigated this budokwai website a little bit

    they have Judo, Karate, Aikido and Jiu-Jitsu.
    i was thinking of taking a trip up there and having a look around some time

    has anyone trained there? what are your thoughts on it?

    is aikido and shotokan karate a waste of time?

    Do you know any Koryu around in Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire and
    Buckinghamshire?

    Is judo koryu?

    Is kendo Koryu?

    I am a newbie doing boxing currently.
     
  2. Llamageddon

    Llamageddon MAP's weird cousin Supporter

    I think Kogusoku has a connection to Chelsea, and is Mr. Koryu. He might be able to help.
     
  3. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    The budokwai had teachers that were koryu (i think fusen and tenjin shinyo ryu count) but that was during their beginnings in the 1920's. they later became a judo club with the same instructors.

    They're one of the oldest english judo clubs and gave birth to legends like Bill Underwood.
     
  4. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Ha, and how have you recovered from that?

    It ain't even close to Koryu, if that's what you're after. Mind you, neither is anything else you're talking about, so it could be great for what you're after... but we'll get to that. I will say, though, that I am a bit wary of places that list so many systems (especially when it's a generic "jiu jitsu" [sic] combined with other well known Japanese and related arts), most of all when all taught by the same person.

    Not if you want to learn Aikido or Shotokan....

    Not offhand, but Dean and Kogusoku, as well as ScottUK would be your go-to guys in that geography.

    No.

    Judo is a modern system from the late 1800's developed by Kano Jigoro, which has it's basis in a couple of Koryu Jujutsu systems (mostly Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu and Kito Ryu).

    No.

    Kendo is a modern sporting system based around the use of a Japanese sword. It's gone through a range of developments over it's history, which does take it back to the Edo period, however it is not a Ryu (specific system, or lineage of martial traditions and teachings.... although there's a lot more to it than that!), and the modern form really is a modern form.

    Okay, cool. Not really relevant, but cool.

    Now, to the crux of things... what are you after? You said that you've had a conversation with Dean about Koryu, but there doesn't seem to be much here that indicates what you understand of Koryu, or what you think that they are.

    So are you after Koryu? If so, why? And what do you understand them to be? That's probably where we should start.
     
  5. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

  6. Chris Parker

    Chris Parker Valued Member

    Ah, thanks for that, Dean, didn't see that. Okay, HYR is Koryu... not the rest, though.
     
  7. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    They run a BJJ class too if remember right. that might be what he's refering to as jiu jitsu
     
  8. Counter Assault

    Counter Assault Valued Member

    Hey Dean thanks for the reply

    yes i am planning to go to the budokwai to try out Hontai Yoshin Ryu Ju-Jutsu with my girlfriend that does Judo there.

    it comes highly recomended.

    I would like to learn the system kano learned before he created judo.
     
  9. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    he learn't several systems but the budokwai is definitely the place to start, it was started by a guy who studied 2 of the main systems used to make judo!
     
  10. Counter Assault

    Counter Assault Valued Member

    Yes, i am trying to locate Tenjin Shinyo-ryu run by paul masters in essex,

    i found Takeuchi-ryu the oldest form in the uk.
     
  11. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Where are you located? Takeuchi-ryu is at the other end of the country to Tejin Shinyo-ryu.
     
  12. Counter Assault

    Counter Assault Valued Member

    North london, hertfordshire, area. i understand they are far away and there are only three in the country,

    but i would still like to research them regardless in the intrest of learning more about the origins of judo.


    now if anyone wishes to know more about koryu in the uk i can link 2 of the 3 websites. *thumbs up*
     
  13. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Sorry, only three of what?
     
  14. Counter Assault

    Counter Assault Valued Member

    Koyru jujitsu.

    i have another question about when people say they studied traditional jj or japanese jujitsu, but if they are not koyru what's the point of calling them that? it's just misleading.

    then there are jujitsu schools that have only been around a few years.

    could someone explain why a person can say to me he studys kempo and that it is traditional jujitsu but not koryu?

    i would like me and my girlfriend to be accepted into the koyru school in the budokwai can anyone give me any advice about the entry requirements.

    i heard there is a screening process.
     
  15. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    You might find there's more than you think, some just keep under the radar or maybe aren't after students.

    You can have systems which are derived from koryu and whilst this will mean they are gendai it doesn't preclude them from being systems of Japanese Jujutsu.


    The goal posts for what people see as koryu can vary it's not always black and white. As for your question well something can be traditional and still be relatively new Aikido, Kendo and Judo are traditional arts but compared to something like Tenshin Shōden Katori Shintō-ryū they are young upstarts.

    The tradition comes from the cultural trappings and history which the system is based on the dress, etiquette, ways of moving and the development of the techniques etc

    Many ryu-ha have a screening process and it can be different for each one. Best advice I can give is read up so you have an idea of what you might be getting into and don't be a pillock.

    The latter will go a long way. :D

    http://shutokukan.org/join_the_ryu.html

    www.koryu.com

    [ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Koryu-Bujutsu-Classical-Warrior-Traditions/dp/1890536040/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1337893163&sr=8-3"]Koryu Bujutsu Classical Warrior Traditions of Japan: Amazon.co.uk: Diane Skoss: Books[/ame]
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  16. Counter Assault

    Counter Assault Valued Member

    How do i find all the koyru in the uk?
     
  17. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Well the koryu section of MAP might be a good place to start ;)

    Is it just Jujutsu you are after?

    You need to have in mind what you wish to study, start looking at enbu on YouTube, read up on some of the ryu-ha. If it's the background of Judo you wish to look at then keep that in mind.

    It's a tricky thing because the choice can be a vary personal decision but on the other hand with how rare koryu is, although in the UK we are lucky in that there's a fair but, it is sometimes a case of taking whatever you can get as odd as that may sound.

    You just need to make sure the school "fits" you and vice versa.
     
  18. Counter Assault

    Counter Assault Valued Member

    i mean i have tried a few jujitsu places and most dont really go with me.

    i mean say you tried one jujitsu school that was recommened on map and you found the lessons not to bad but then suddenly getting a bit brutal then after some research finding out the instuctor got thrown out of a school that got slated on bullshido for being only 10 years old and run by frank dux types who had then left discredited and was teaching his own brand of jujitsu.

    when questioned about lineage he would go very quiet and say it's all jujitsu.

    meh, how would you know who to trust?
     
  19. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    There are some very knowledgable people here on MAP, I'm not including myself there, who will be able to say yes or no to if a teacher is legit as far as lineage and background goes.

    Other than that do your background research.
     
  20. Counter Assault

    Counter Assault Valued Member

    Thanks sorry if i am sounding like i dont know a lot, i like history mostly english history ancient to medieval i want to study it at university, reading up on japanese history is also intresting but its very complex.
     

Share This Page