Scott Sonnen - Opinion on neck bridges

For those of you that have been training some time in grappling or just those with a keen eye for physical culture.... you will have no doubt come across the work of Scott Sonnen... his work with Clubells

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Sonnon

I came across an interesting bit by him today. Worth a read. Applies specifically to grapplers!

NOTE: That's not Scott Sonnen in the picture... it is someone who might have not thought through the ramifications of this type of training under load on his cervical collar.

 

interesting. i'd like some citations on the "wrestlers turn into cripples" bit (are there any in the original article?), but overall i'm inclined to agree, as i'm not a big fan of bridging in general. i don't know what the exact uses of the bridge as an exercise are in wrestling (barring helping you with whatever wrestling movements involve similar positions), but health-wise, i'd argue there are many ways to train spinal extension that are much less risky, and personally see no use in using the neck bridge, specifically.

 

No other citations in the original article other than the link in item 1. Though I'm sure it won't be hard to dig them up... there have been any number of broken necks from throws that landed wrong for the person throwing... or for the person being thrown. I'll see if I can dig some up.

 

??? They recommend that that you substitute a neck exercise for a non-neck exercise? While I agree that there are potential risks to neck bridging, this article hasn't actually proposed any better way.

 

But that's not the issue is it?

 

I don't think it's directly what Sonnen is talking about... I think the springboard for his article is the conditioning of the neck in wrestling by neck bridges and how that's been taken to extremes by bridging to the nose. Then taken further again by being adding Kettlebells. Perhaps along the lines of not much thought given to the anatomy and how it factors into the risk/reward ratio for this type of training.

So while it may not be the exact issue... it is related. Your mileage may vary.. this is what I got out of it.

 

Thanks for this.

I've been doing Gotch's Bible every other day since January and have been including nose bridging as an routine finisher (official workout stipulates 3 mins hold but I can only manage approx 1min 30sec before I get scared and bail out). I have felt some clear flexibility and core strength benefits but it does feel dangerous as hell.

My sense of self preservation invites me to view the nose bridge as a really bad idea but as it's so pervasive in wrestling circles, I'm not sure what to think. Nice to have a different perspective even if it does just add to my existing doubt/confusion.

 

From a sport specific perspective i think there's some validity. In wrestling rule sets where the objective is to shoulder pin, then yes a hip bridge isn't going to address the requirement to bridge on the neck in order to bring the shoulders off the floor. In BJJ/sub wrestling, hip bridging is not only sufficient , but superior to neck bridging as

A) Prevention of the shoulder pin isn't as relevant

B) hip bridging is a superior movement to enable hip escapes/shrimping

Just my 2 cents.

 

That's actually a very clear explanation February, thanks.

 

I have never had issues with it personally, but if you find the nose bridge a bit scary then keep using the hands for stability when you start to panic . I have always found the bridge to do more for my back than my neck anyway

 

It does still leave the question what is the best way to strengthen your neck for combat sports?

 

i vote for gymnastic holds and similar isometrics, as well as heavy deadlifts and the different overhead pressing lifts.

 

I'd agree.

In addition to the residual benefit from things like overhead Kettlebell work, floor work using the weight of the head as resistance is good too e.g. lying on your back and performing various repetitions bringing the chin to the chest, ears to the shoulders and turning the head side to side (all while keeping the back of the head off the floor) are great for conditioning and are a staple of many BJJ/Sub Grappling gyms.

Here's an interesting one from Rickson, who has the neck of a bull (0:37):

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTi_E78DSK4"]Rickson Gracie Workout - YouTube[/ame]

Anecdotally, one of the guys I regularly roll with at our gym has a great nose/neck bridge and regularly bridges in this way when I have him secured in side control. Unfortunately, this method of bridging affords zero lateral mobility in the hips to enable him to escape, so beyond being mildly annoying for me (and probably slightly dangerous for him), serves no useful purpose with regard to specifity.

Having said that, here's an interesting old catch wrestling vid that was posted on Lockflow recently, where neck bridging serves an obvious purpose in keeping the shoulders elevated and preventing the pin:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6VvsiDFLG_o&feature=player_embedded"]1903 Catch-as-Catch-Can Match with technique commentary - YouTube[/ame]

So it's horses for courses I guess.

I'd be inclined to state that as long as common sense is doled out in healthy portions it should be quite clear what will help with regard to specifity and what won't. Unfortuantely, much of the time things like this become a gymnastic/athletic "willy waving" contest (as in Slip's pic above) and that's when things start to get dangerous.

 

I reckon there are plenty of ways to train you neck without having to resort to neck bridges let alone a nose bridge. Seems the cervical collar is so at risk with that particular move.

During BJJ the other day we have a warm up drill we do where we slowly lower ourselves forward onto our head, the tops of our heads... then hips and legs flip over and we land arched from our heads - head still in contact with the floor... through our body with our feet flat. Basically flipping over into the bridge position. From the bridge we then turn to either side and out of it.

I see it and cringe. I've stopped doing them. I don't see any advantage to them and the risk of injury is just crazy. No way Jose.

For neck strengthening - there are towel drills, partner drills, laying on bench drills, weight plate drills, elastic band drills, and you can always invest in a head harness and a few plates... tons of stuff where you have far more control than the bridging.

 

Great thread SlipTheJab, very, very important & useful; & thanks to February for the clear explanation, it makes a lot of sense.


Osu!

 

The goal in wrestling is to put both of your opponents shoulders to the mat for 2 or 3 seconds (ref counts, it's not exact), so neck bridging - if you're strong enough - can lift your shoulders, and your opponent off the mat. It can also generate space for you to perform a reversal and gain position over your opponent.

We did them every day in wrestling practice in high school, no one on my teams were ever injured doing it, but the potential if clearly there. Today I never do them, it seems like a crazy un-necessary risk, my hapkido instructor is a not a fan of them either and while he has several different bridging exercises we do, none of them include supporting your weight with your neck like wrestlers do.

 

Something to think about?

I'm not sure if this is relevant or not but it's worth considering..

Between 1984-1996 there were 115 catastophic neck injuries in Australia suffered by rugby players. In comparison, in the USA between 1981-1989 there were only 35 catastrophic neck injuries in wrestling. There are obvious differences in these sports etc but when you consider that both involve potentially high impact hits involving the neck the two can be compared to a degree. I thought it interesting that the wrestlers have a much lower rate of injury (which could be due to many things) and I would like to think that the neck strengthening, including bridging, is much more a part of the sport and may well be one reason why the injury rate is so much lower.

I have to say that there are many myths in both medicine and sports (eg don't squat low, you will ruin your knees, don't weight lift it will make you inflexible, etc) so until there was some better evidence against doing neck bridging I would not say that it is a stupid exercise.

It's part of yoga as well and they don't seem to have a great deal of injuries reported from the practice. High impact sports are always a risk to the spine. It's seems more likely that not doing bridges would leave your neck at risk rather than being the thing that hurts you in the first place. I respectfully have to say most of what I hear about bridging borders on speculation rather that anything else. I would think that more review/research is needed before leaving it out of your routines, particularly if you are a grappler.

 

the general point this thread seems headed towards is that they can be beneficial if done well but many people are not comfortable trying them although there are plenty of alternatives if your focus is flexibility, neck or back strength, so everybody wins really. I made a thread about them a week or so ago and the thing that's really surprising too me and its evident on this thread as well is how sports specific the majority view them, that sport being wrestling. Ofcourse they would obviously be of more importance in wrestling than other grappling styles because of the pins but I have found them to be a pretty regular occurrence in judo warm ups and a very regular occurrence in Sambo warm ups, I wouldn't find it odd to see them in BJJ classes either. To me it seems like a generally good movement to learn for grappling, although I do agree if your focus is neck strength there is probably allot easier stuff you could be doing that works just as well.

 

One thing about bridges is that you don't need anything in particular other than perhaps floor space to do them... not everyone has access to a weight room or other things that will work as effectively.

It is true as well that there are many variations , some involving very little actual weight on the neck, so you you don't necessarily need to go to full end range or to really weight the neck to get at least some degree of the potential benefits.

FWIW

LFD

 

Ive always been interested in how the H8ll Sonnen manages to make so much money and gets so much column inches out of being a trainer who has had what? 2 pro fighters train with him? one Crane I think had terrible cardio both before and after working with Sonnen, goes to show marketing really works and people are always looking for an easy road to fitness and to be unique and special…..
His grappling record is very good (although his world sanda title is a joke), but I always have a red light go off whenever
1)people come out with secret Russian exercise programme,
2)start selling special unique equipment as the holy grail of fitness
3)start using made up words to sound intelligent, and finally
4)whose seminars are largely filled with overweight unfit people looking for the next easy way to fitness