Ancient Muay Thai style "Muay Thai Chaiya" documentary.

Enjoy
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQuAu0dkkzs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQuAu0dkkzs[/ame]

 

I just don't buy all that "muay Chaiya is so deadly" crap that it's modern proponents rave on about.

 

Not that impressed.

I saw a lot of BS in that video to be honest. Reminded me of certain bits of jujutsu or silat or kung fu. The grappling was far from special and the knife stuff self-defence could have come straight from your average crapfest Budo art.

Mt seems like a distillation of anything worthwhile that this system has to offer.

 

to my knowledge "ancient muay thai" would be linglom.

 

I am really confused about the ancient Muay Thai style or it's better to say styles?? I have heard about Muay Boran being the ancient Muay Thai and Muay Chaiya also being the ancient style.. Shootodog above mentioned one more name, new to me.. So could someone here enlighten me what's the deal here?? Which is the ancient Muay Thai and how practical and effective is in comparison with Muay Thai and Thai Boxing??

 

There are numerous threads about the bull that comes from the mouth of the chaiya guys on other boards that brutally take them to task about history and all the stuff they brag about.

Its pretty nauseating and there is no proof at all to their superiority in the ring or out. They are riding on the long ago past and certainly they dont train to fight anymore and they lost that thread.

The best one came from the some dude who wanders around and said one of the chaiya guys had 300 fights!! Right there any intelligent person would dismiss that but they continue until someone says if the idiot has 300 fights he should be fighting the likes of buakaw and the conversation goes dead. Now they also have on line courses with a guy doing kata and selling you pieces of the dead pattern for money.....thinking its actual of some use!

Chaiya is just one old style of several. The other styles dont brag or talk **** like chaiya does.

 

Aren't all these names, just versions of the same thing from different parts of Thailand?

 

yes but they have distinction, chaiya is different from like northern lanna, so it does have some meaning at some point.

 

I wasn't suggesting (intentionally) that they dont have meaning. It seems there are alot of "Old style" muay thai schools coming out of the woodwork, are some of them reconstructed? Im genuinely curious..

 

muay boran i believe literally means "house" muay or "local" muay. it is different from muay thai because muay thai was codified by King Rama VII (rules were set). prior to that, muay existed in various incarnations. some of those incarnations survive as muay boran (or local/ house/ family muay).

linglom is older than muay. this much i know. i think it's family tree is lost in the mist of time but it is the link that "connects" muay to bando and khmer. linglom is the "father" of muay.

soKKlab is the best to answer this really (if you could find him).

 

bottom line like muay thai its fighting so in the end the names might differentiate them but they have to function so that becomes the final bottom line

 

yes and no.

yes it's all about fighting and have similarities such as elbows and knees but no they are quite distinct from each other.

 

yes, muay thai is a new sport and the other stuff is the old way of fighting. Muay thai has things the old style doesnt and vice versa, bottom line as this thread started was specifically about chaiya and the comments i placed above still stands about that is right now in time

 

Boran means ancient in the Thai language,Muay is Boxing,so we get Muay Boran or ancient Boxing.

There are several styles of Muay Boran,Muay Korat,Muay Lopburi,Muay Utteraditt,Muay Thasao,all from various ares of Thailand,they are all originally Muay Khard Cheurk(hemp wraps) styles ie styles that pre date the Boxing Glove.

I remember asking my teacher about these styles and he told me its just Thai people fighting so dont fuss over it!

 

ahhaha... eastern vs western mindset eh. We always have to know all the details and the labels and the categorical hierarchies etc. They just get on with it. Good thing.. too much of one without the other is a problem.

 

Is there anyone here who has studied the ancient form of Muay Thai?? I have heard that it also has locks and grapplings teachniques, but I don't know if it's a valid information or a marketing trick..

 

the same thing with this ling lom non sense, ling lom is an old method very raw and most people recreate it from books and sell it to people who dont know better. I studied some of the old material again its basic and it depends on the teacher. It has some locks, and some basic grappling but not grappling like the modern extensive methods or even judo. Things like chaiya which i didnt like go into these stances that are hard to use and when they fight the stances and stuff go out the window especially when going against a formiable or equal opponent. I am half thai, my grandfather and great grandfather on my moms side did fight. The foreigners get sold a ton of hogwash. People make up stuff or modernize it which is cool but then they say its authentic, real, the ultimate.........

 

Ive studied a small ammount of Chaiya and Lopburi sytles,I like Chaiya but agree with Jaggernautico the foreigners get taught a lot of rubbish from some people nowadays.

To me you are much better really understanding modern Muay Thai and then absorbing some of the older training methods and techniques,that way you will find you have most of it anyway.

I understand(nowadays) what my teacher meant all those years ago when he said dont fuss about it,there are many ways to for example break a elbow,but the elbow breaks only in one direction so to speak so it becomes clear after a lot of study and practice how to do these things.

Of the older syles I prefer Muay Lopburi

 

Lol, yes there are 'Chaiya guys who brag and talk a lot' but these are usaully the guys who really can only talk. I believe the guy they quote as having 300 fights is the last great Chaiya fighter Kru Tonglor Yalae who had between 100-200 fights, and like most famous fighters won more than he lost. He's dead now, so it would be kind of hard to fight Buakaw...

The main point about Chaiya (and the other Muay Boran styles) is that they are/were more comprehensive than ring muay thai, in the fact that they were designed for self defense and real fighting. So nut kicking, eye/throat attacks and breaks where all taught and practised. This is one of the reasons that they are not actively trained or used for ring fighting, and why ring muay thai was developed - as a spectator sport that fighters can have a career in.

Your right, there are a bunch of guys who like to brag, big up and use propagander to try and push Chaiya. It's just another martial art, designed and refined for real fighting... one of the problems is that most of the schools teach watered down/changed versions of the style and have lost the core of the system. Also it doesn't help having many people flaming it without actually experiencing it for themselves!

As the style has many moves which are illegal in the ring, it takes longer to learn the style well enough so that you can use the watered down version in the ring. Add the fact that as the schools are not driven by fight money and gambling as in modern muay thai, and are more concerned with teaching the style in the original form which is none ring fighting, it's easy to understand why there are not many guys using it in the ring. Also, many people are put off by things that they read online such as "guy doing kata and selling you pieces of the dead pattern for money" written by people who have no idea what they are talking about. Muay Boran is not ring Muay Thai, and so are you really surprised that there are different ways of teaching it?

The real style has no katas, but does have a bunch of shorter combinations that teach the students ways of combining movements together. This is a very good way of teaching a style online, as you don't have a teacher in front of you to hold pads and give you cues. All of the punches, kicks, elbows and knees (and other techniques) have a lot of details (which each have individual tutorials on the website) that take a long time to nail. check out www.youtube.com/user/nathanbrown19 for some free lessons (almost an hours worth) in the basics. Jagger, I don't expect you to take the time to learn these, as it seems that your cup is already overflowing, and are not willing to empty it.

If you think you can empty your cup, please come along to Baan Chang Thai in bangkok, where Kru Lek or myself are more than happy to explain the reasons for the stances and other techniques, and show you that they are used when fighting. (we train outdoors and so there are no windows)

Please, if you guys have any questions about Muay Chaiya, I'm more than happy to answer them if I can.

@Fire Cobra: where do you learn Muay Lopburi? I'm always interested in learning of other teachers...

From the "guy doing kata and selling you pieces of the dead pattern for money"

 

Hello Nathan,

I belive the guy who someone said has had 300 matches including Boxing in Lumpinee is one of your guys from Kru Leks not Kru Tonglor.

Also I belive you know who Jaggernautico was reffering to as being full of bull and it wasnt your school!.

I learnt some Muay Lopburi from my teacher who was from Phisanalouk but his teacher was from Lopburi.

Nice to have you post on here Nathan