A different perspective on sport vs self defence

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Ben Gash CLF, Apr 4, 2017.

  1. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If its with a "novel" shaped fist, Its far more likely you'll break your fingers first.
     
  2. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    No no, just side of the open hand sliding forward underneath. Can put more than enough body mass behind it to cause damage.
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Is this is trapping range?

    How are you stopping the clinch?

    WC antigrappling?

    if its moving upwards, how are you hitting the neck? upwards from neck is the jaw?
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    What do you mean by "novel shaped fist"?

    Google drew a blank.
     
  5. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Like Pride and Prejudice shaped fist :D

    Nah I think he means anything that's not a regular "fist" like blade hand, tiger claw, eagle claw etc
     
  6. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Trapping range or clinch range

    By being good at the clinch

    No such thing.

    You slide up, under the jaw to hit the throat. The problem is that most people think of hitting the throat by hitting forward, which is neutralized by dropping the jaw as people should be doing. But if you slide upward into the throat, unless they have their chin pinned to their chest, you can hit the trachea.
     
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Also, the trachea is a lot better protected from front-on strikes.
     
  8. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You could do some serious damage with hardbacks for hands! :D
     
  9. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Bingo, that's the badger!
     
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Sounds like your giving away an armdrag, single leg or a strike to the highline with your arm/elbow in that position.



     
  11. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Seen plenty of fighters take a full on punch to the throat (with gloves on but still hard shots) without it really fazing them too much. If anything a punch to the throat seems less effective than a punch to the chin. At least the chin creates disorientation, dizzyness and perhaps a KO. A throat strike causes localised trauma but doesn't rattle the head as much.
    Not saying it's not a viable target but much like everything else it's effectiveness has been overstated by people in arts that think it's the panacea for any violent situation (looking at you Wing Chun, Krav and Ninjutsu!).
     
  12. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Not really. You're not hanging it out there. You hit and transition; elbow, forearm, cross face, framing away at the neck, etc. etc. The bigger worry with doing the palm down version is them being quick enough to shove the elbow aside and ending up with their head beside your upper arm, like the end position of a duck under, but saying a technique is bad because someone could do something, well, find me a technique no one can do anything from.

    Just like any shot you can't treat it as a fight ender. You keep hitting till the job is done. But also keep in mind that, in wing chun anyway, it's also an analogue for attacking the neck with blades. Palm down strike to the throat is a cross side cut, palm up is same side.
     
  13. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    The throat is designed to spread load across the bone and cartilage that covers the trachea. Also, the trachea cartilage can completely collapse and spring open again, as long as it is not fractured.

    Having your trachea compressed is nasty enough, and I've read about a few boxers who thought they were going to choke on their gumshield etc. after being hit in the throat, but a padded, spread load like a boxing glove is not likely to create a fracture. I doubt a full fist would without gloves.

    Is it oversold? Of course, just as everything is: just like every time an instructor mimes a cross to the jaw and says "BOOM! Knockout.";)

    When targeted correctly, it takes less force to fracture the tracheal cartilage than it does to break a nose.
     
  14. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award


    I think we need video to see this properly!
     
  15. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    No one sensible in the xkans/ninjutsu would suggest it's a panacea
    In my view strikes to the neck are viable (there is a physiological effect if you hit the right place too), they do require training to deliver and they can catch you out if you don't train to defend them
     

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