Hapkido Check In

Discussion in 'Hapkido' started by Thomas, Sep 23, 2003.

  1. ShogunGall

    ShogunGall Valued Member

    Where did you do Hapkido in Sydney? Is it the one in Husrtville (Concept Martial Arts)? I've always wanted to do hapkido (did it when I was like 7yrs old lol) dojang but I didn't know if there were any reputable ones around!
     
  2. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    All of the Hapkido I have experienced has used low line kicks extensively. Has your experience been different?
     
  3. raised1

    raised1 New Member

    Greetings,

    that is my experience as well and I have been practicing it off and on since 1996.
     
  4. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    We used to have a poster here who was a student of Kuk Sool Hapkido. If I recall, back when Hapkido was just getting sorted out, there were a lot of 'split-offs' that resulted in various groups... there were a whole bunch of different Hapkido Kwans as well as groups like Kuk Sool Won and Hwarangdo (both of which downplayed their background). Kuk Sool Hapkido was one of the kwans that emerged (Ku Sool Kwan) and still remains, albeit a fairly small group. If I recall, they split off before a lot groups added the flashy kicks and acrobatic stuff.

    You also have to take into account groups under GM Seo In-sun ... of course he is well known for having helped develop Kuk Sool Won with his brother GM Suh In-hyuk. He also had a background in 'traditional Hapkido', earning at least a 1st and 3rd dan from Choi Yong-sool Dojunim. After splitting from KSW, he created an umbrella group (Hanminjok Association) which assists various kwans with training and rank and whatnot. Some of the kwans under the Hanminjok Association use some of the patterns (hyung) from Kuk Sool Won in their Hapkido. With Kuk Sool Won being one of the first split-offs (or at least group heavily influenced by Hapkido), I think it would make this lineage as 'traditional' as anything can be in Hapkido...

    As far as 'traditional' goes in Hapkido, in my opinion (for what it's worth), as long as your lineage goes back to Choi Yong-sool Dojunim and/or Ji Han Jae Dojunim, you are probably as 'traditional' as you can expect. There are some kwans put under the 'modern' label, such as Combat Hapkido, for groups that take the core operating system and add in other material and/or streamline it to deal with the perceived realities of modern self defense. Granted, all of the labeling and definitions can lead to huge political fights... :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2015
  5. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    GM Geoff Booth has a great reputation and seems to do a lot of seminars in Australia (and worldwide)... you may wish to contact him and see if he has any affiliates in your area.
    http://www.completeselfdefence.com/instructors/
     
  6. ShogunGall

    ShogunGall Valued Member

    That's pretty cool. Although I'm involved in kyokushin right now the prospect of hapkido is quite awesome! And yeah I'll see if Geoff booth does any seminars to check it out (although his main dojang is a bit of a distance, but he does have a dojang run by a 5th dan which is right next to me).

    Out of curiosity (because you sound like you know quite abit about hapkido), how does it fare sparring wise? I've heard on one end that some do full on randori type sessions, and on the other end it's nonexistent. Which is the more common style of sparring etc? Thanks!
     
  7. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    traditional hapkido means post world war 2 and based on drajj. ksw was not even codified as a system until the 60's. in my mind, you can't be traditional if you've mashed two relatively new systems together. sure, you can make the argument that ksw techniques or drajj go back centuries. whatever. mashing the two together isn't exactly traditional in my view.

    one, this isn't the dojo so you don't have to address me as sir or thank me.

    two, i don't think it's too much to ask to not copy and paste. would you agree on that? surely, you can write up a sentence or two?
     
  8. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    of course, i would agree with that. i don't think there should be anything particularly political about it.
     
  9. raised1

    raised1 New Member

    I respect your view...

    in regards to your two points, understood
     
  10. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    I can't attest to having officially trained in it, although i did go to an "mma gym" that i believe was being run by a group of hapkido practitioners, but i was under the distinct impression that low kicks were not practiced in hapkido, unless you counted instep stomps?
     
  11. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    gotcha. so you went to an mma gym, and from there you decided that you knew enough about hapkido to make this comment.

    well played.
     
  12. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    It wasn't really an MMA gym, that was just what it was advertised as, it was basically a bunch of people who had a background in what seemed to be hapkido trying to get on the TUF bandwagon, supplemented by a boxing coach, who was suffering quite badly from pugilistic dementia, and a "jiu jitsu master from Russia", who was actually a master of sport in sambo from Georgia.

    The main reason i felt confident enough to make the comment, on the other hand, was due to the amount of reading i had to do before i was sure they had a background in hapkido, because the only thing i was completely sure of was the fact the signs they had hidden in the cupboard were in korean, i try not to trust everything in books, but that is what lead me to say what i said, coupled with what i was told while "training" at said gym, and the fact that at least two of the people running the gym, later opened a "traditional hapkido" school.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2015
  13. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    the first part of your post is almost like the setup to a joke.

    "so a guy walks into an mma gym, but it was run by hapkido teachers, and also was a demented boxing coach and a fake jiujitsu master from russia who was actually from georgia..."

    lol
     
  14. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    Your telling me, i had to pay them upfront for the month i was there.

    I should also point out, that the sambo guy was the farthest thing from fake (especially as he kept telling everyone he'd never done any jiu jitsu at all), and pretty much the only reason i agreed to pay up front, and after i left, i trained under him for six years, but that has nothing to do with hapkido.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2015
  15. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I'd take a chance and check him out... could be good

    Really, really depends on kwan and school... like you said, some do a lot and some do none.

    Best thing would be to ask the specific school and instructor what they do...
     
  16. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    I would guess that the school you checked out probably wasn't a typical 'Hapkido' school. Most HKD schools use a lot of low line kicks. Some use lots of high and acrobatic kicks as well.
     
  17. Thomas

    Thomas Combat Hapkido/Taekwondo

    Agreed

    I don't know... I think it gets pretty tough to argue through this stuff.

    In my opinion, I think KSW is about as 'traditional' as Hapkido is, depending on what you call 'Hapkido'. Choi Yong-sool's 'Hapkido' is pretty much DRAJJ (traditional), probably with some Judo influence (from Suh Beok-sup). What became known world-wide as 'Hapkido' is more the DRAJJ + Ji Han Jae Dojunim and Kim Moo-hyun additions (esp. kicking). My understanding is that KSW in the early years was pretty much Hapkido + Forms + some chinese influence. Is Ji Han-jae Dojunim's combination of HKD roots and other stuff more 'traditional' than GM Suh In-hyuk's combination of HKD and other stuff?

    :)
     
  18. qazaqwe

    qazaqwe Valued Member

    It was more that even in the context of mixed martial arts, or an interpretation of it at least, the concept seemed almost completely ignored, which made me think it was a facet of hapkido, the high kicks were very much present, as were the joint locks and throws, although the grappling seemed focused on fast exchanges with little mat work, but no one who instructed me ever showed me anything resembling a low kick outside of a few very low stomps to the ankle joint, does that sound like a form of hapkido, or other Korean martial art?
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
  19. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    while i understand what you're getting at, it seems to me that the combination of however you want to define hkd and however you want to define ksw isn't exactly "traditional". that's really the question. because now we're getting into drajj + judo + kicks + chinese forms + native korean arts. right?

    in this sense, i think "traditional" is really just a marketing gimmick.
     
  20. Shihan

    Shihan Valued Member

    Greetings all,

    It's been a while since I have been here and it's good to see Thomas is still sharing his wisdom with the rest of us. As for the term "tradition" when applied to hapkido or any martial arts, I take this approach and view it as such: A lake on a mountain top supplies water to the different towns in a valley below. The towns are at the north, south, east west points of the mountain, so the water travels down 4 different paths to water the towns. In one town, the water pools together in a stream. In the next town, it comes together at a lake with fish in it. Another town it serves as a waterfall. And in the last town, it gathers underground and comes up in a well for all to use. If you needed water, what town would you go to? The one that fills your need. We can all point back to a line from where the art originated, but the most importantly (to me) is my instructor a competent one? Also, where does my interest really lie? self defense?, good health?, tradition?, tournaments? What is a person real need for training. This may seem simplistic, maybe even naive, but if you did your research and the instructor belongs to a reputable federation and/or comes from a line of well known/good teachers, I say go for what you know.
     

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