pain-asceticism

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Ascetic, Jul 11, 2016.

  1. Ascetic

    Ascetic New Member

    I'd like to introduce some asceticism to my spiritual practice. All the stuff I have read about looks like it would not be wise to do very much of it. What methods would you suggest that I could use to cause myself substantial pain on a regular basis, without risking any nerve damage or crippling myself?

    How much have you actually practiced your suggestion yourself?


    Thank you!!!!!!!!
     
  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You might get more answers by posting your question on a BDSM forum.

    That isn't a joke.
     
  3. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Conditioning exercises! You want to test your capacity for discomfort? There's nothing like sucking wind after a set of hill sprints or the like and forcing yourself to keep going.

    Plus there's the added fitness benefits.
     
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Is discomfort the same as pain, do you think?
     
  5. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Come to class on Sunday morning. :fight1::lowblow::fight2:

    That's almost a serious answer, as you'll find out a lot about yourself after a good training session.

    A completely serious answer is don't be causing yourself pain even on a temporary basis.

    Conditioning is good. Pain is not.
     
  6. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    It's all just intensity and frequency of nerve signals. Your body still tells you "no, stop, don't do that."
     
  7. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Mine does that when I try and get out of the chair. :cry:
     
  8. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    So what are you hoping to get out of this "pain training"? What have you read about it? What are the benefits supposed to be?

    Pain can be a feature of good training. But I'm not sure it's generally the point.
     
  9. Ascetic

    Ascetic New Member

    Thanks. Also, thanks for telling me its not a joke because I probably would not have thought seriously about it otherwise.

    Come to think of it, maybe I will find a pretty assistant to help me out.

    But then, is it still asceticism?
     
  10. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

  11. Ascetic

    Ascetic New Member

    A few things.
    Motivation. Have you ever been dissatisfied with something in your life but not really motivated to do something about it? A little pain along with thinking about might help you take action.

    Its kind of hard to describe but over and above normal pain tollerance there is a yoga practice I learned as a child where you cause yourself some pain but try not to really engage mentally, letting it wash over you. Its supposed to help enlighten you. Anyone know of this?

    Lastly, sometimes I get frustrated with life. Its comforting to have a level of physical pain to distract you from the emotional pain. Kind of like the old joke where a guy hurts himself and someone asks if he wants them to take his mind off it. When he says yes they kick him in the balls.

    Thanks to all the other replies as well, they were all helpful.
     
  12. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Get a wife. By all accounts that's the most painful thing you can do.
     
  13. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Start doing bonsai, it is nothing but pain. You also get a kickass garden.
     
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    But that intensity and speed of onset is all-important, isn't it?

    I can get through severe discomfort okay, but stubbing my toe is much more of a shock.

    Well, if anyone is going to know about inflicting pain in a safe way, I reckon the BDSM crowd are probably the experts.
     
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    ...or a husband, from what I've heard ;)
     
  16. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I know, I'm a party pooper, but:
    This is very close to self-harm.
    Actually it is.
    Getting help of a professional might be a more suitable solution.
     
  17. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Sounds like self harm to me...
     
  18. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    I think it's important to distinguish type of pain, based on type of injury (or lack thereof). There is mental pain, the fear of physical discomfort and so on, and then there is real physical pain that is usually (not always) a sign to STOP. A personal example is I have an inflamed right heel tendon that flares up if I run too much or jump rope too long. The pain means I should stop, in fact I may need an anti-inflammatory. Trying to 'bear down' or work through my pain is stupid, and will just mean my tendonitis will worsen.

    Boxers are exposed to a lot of pain and injuries, usually non-threatening, but not always. The pain of a punch to the face or body is something that boxers have to condition away. The pain of cuts, swollen eyes, fractured ribs, you name it. I can't think of anything beyond MMA and boxing and similar combat sports where you will see someone have to endure a great amount of pain, and still perform.

    Likewise the pain of lactic acid is a well known thing that long distance runners and just about anybody who does general exercise has to condition themselves to withstand. This is the 'no pain, no gain' type of pain. There is little chance for injury, but boy that doesn't help when you've hit 5m and you just want someone to knock you out with a brick if it would only make the burning in your legs stop. This in my opinion, is more of a mental battle against pain (that can be conditioned).

    Pain from a ruptured organ or broken bone? There is no training method for that. This is pain your body is using to let you know part of you has been broken and you need immediate medical attention.

    Then there is the actual history of 'ascetics' which I'm guessing by your name and interest is what you're looking into. I'd caution you to avoid it.

    Real ascetic practices are actually kind of an academic interest of mine, since they originate in ancient cultures. The history of these go back centuries or millenia in some cases, throughout numerous peoples and places. Some of these are, quite frankly, very gruesome and well beyond anything currently considered 'BDSM'. The ancient Aztecs had some really horrible self-mutilation practices. The Native Americans have a number of similar personal practices that cause suffering in order to make someone 'strong' or present a sort of spiritual sacrifice (anyone who has seen the classic Western 'A Man Called Horse' knows what I mean here). The Indian subcontinent has a whole history of esoteric practices designed to achieve 'enlightenment' through ascetic self-mutilation and pain tolerance practices. In fact the history of the Buddha records how many of the Buddha's first followers were such ascetics, who could not find enlightenment by physically torturing themselves, and instead found it with mental discipline.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
  19. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Here's an example by the way of the Great Plains 'Sun Dance' ritual. Essentially, the brave is impaled with pins and hung in the sun or sometimes they'll even have to bend a tree for hours at a time, to both worship the Great Spirit, and show their tribe a personal display of courage and endurance.

    [​IMG]

    This Sioux did this for 3 hours in 1982:

    [​IMG]

    Similar practice from Malaysia:

    [​IMG]

    Believe it or not, this practice not just performed by Native Americans and ancient Asia cultures, but is now found all over the world, especially where New Age mysticism and the piercing communities overlap, sometimes called things like "Spirit+Flesh Rituals". I can't link those here because they are NSFW (lots of pictures of naked ladies piercing themselves and pulling weights), but you can Google them easily enough. Only for the strong of stomach mind you, some of these practices are literally disturbing to witness.

    Hollywood made this practice famous, like I said, in the 1970 classic with Richard Harris.

    https://youtu.be/YTRcQrC1H58?t=3940
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2016
  20. flaming

    flaming Valued Member

    I have self harmed in the past send me a private message, if you want to talk about it.
     

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