Ninjutsu or Krav Maga

Hi I'm new to this forum.



I've been training in freestyle kickboxing for a number of years (basically a mix of Karate and western boxing, then this school also teaches knees and elbow techniques for more advanced students. But the school is not specifically Muay Thai). I still train with them about four days a week for two or more hours each.

I do it mainly for fun and fitness and self-defense. There is the option of competing if people wish, but it's not mandatory and it's not something I'm really interested in.

I'd like to try something new to add to my training. Preferably something that's not a competition sport.

I like the look of Ninjutsu. It looks really interesting and the moves are really fancy. Which could be really cool and fun to do. Also they more traditional weapons, such as swords and staffs but it mightn't be that practical in more modern situations.


Krav Maga on the other hand is designed for more practical modern situations. But it mightn't be as enjoyable. I sometimes also find people who do Krav Maga a bit arrogant. (Our system is the best). I did some training with another Krav Maga group. Although it was quite practical, I found that it doesn't work 'as well' on someone with previous Martial arts experience and is more conditioned.

I'm not bragging at all I say that I have a higher pain threshold than some people (I know professional fighters are even much higher). I've spend years being punch, kicked and bruised, so I don't let it bother me that me that much.

Basically my point is that I find that Krav Maga practitioners tend to train against thungs and street bullies with no fighting experience and so they seem surprised when the moves aren't as effective on me.

'Did that not hurt you?' or 'I bite you on the arm and you didn't even flinch'.


Some other martial arts clubs/dojos tend to be charlatans just trying to make money from people. Krav Maga a bit more so, because of it's growing popularity. They train people, but then they're not qualified to do gradings. So your belt won't be recognized in other countries.


However I found two of each clubs, Ninjutsu and Krav Maga which seem to be more legit as they're associated with international organisations, which would recognized people belts if you moved abroad.

The Ninjutsu club associated with Bujinkan organisation.

http://www.jishindojo.com/

And the Krav Maga club which associates with 'Krav Maga Global'.

http://www.krav-maga-ireland.com/


Both of which are feasible for me to attend from where I live.


If anyone can give a bit more insight or advice it would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

 

Hi and welcome to MAP!
I also practised Bujinkan Ninjutsu in the past and I would recommend you to avoid it. It seems that Bujinkan has a big quality control issue and you have to be really lucky to find a good dojo outside Japan.
I think the other 2 legitimate ninjutsu organisations Genbukan and Jinenkan are a lot more trustworthy, so if you are interested in the art finding a dojo that belongs in one of those two organisations would be safer bet.

Now, I haven't trained in Krav Maga, but I have heard here in MAP, that finding a good school in this art can also be quite difficult.
I would suggest you to give a look in FMA (filipino martial arts) schools instead, since you are looking for practical self defense and FMA is widely considered the art that provides the best training for fighting with knives and weaponry!! FMA rock!!!

 

The OP asked about ninjutsu, not bujinkan in particular. If you ave a genbukan dojo nearby which is listed on the dojo page of www.genbukan.org, you are guaranteed to get proper instruction. If you are looking for an art from the pov of learning an interesting and challenging art which also contains weaponry, then by all means, ninjutsu / ninpo is a good choice.

Otoh, if you are looking for practical application, I think krav maga is a much better choice. Even ignoring style and practicality of weapons, in e.g. Genbukan you'll spend most of your first year learning to fall and roll in a dozen different ways in all directions, and learning proper body movements. all useful stuff, but if you need practical application in a short time, then ninpo is really not that great.

 

hey man . welcome

It seems unfortunatly that the two arts you have listed are difficult, because of commercial reasons. It is hard to find good Ninjutsu outside of Japan and its hard to find good Krav Maga outside of the israeli military. But people open schools with their names in the title because they know it will get punters in.

I spoke to an ex isreal defence force teacher who does security over their now ( via Email, name of Itay Gil) and he said he was disgusted at how many so called Krav Maga schools he has found are just bad self defence ( like in the town hall, just knee him in the balls kinda thing) with the name stolen. Non of the techniques or the training methods.

So be carefull

 

Thanks for your insight guys.

I just looked at the genbukan directory you sent me, and unfortunately there's actually not one in my city (pity).

The specific Bujinkan club, is doing a short few weeks beginners course in two weeks time. So I thought I would do that first, to give it a fair chance before deciding whether or not to stick with it.

So at least I can say that I've tried it.

As I mentioned I have done kickboxing for a number or years, so I know the proper way to punch and kick if I was a dangerous situation.

The advantage of Krav Maga, is that it deals the psychology of dangerous situations when a person goes into a state of panic (which can cause years of training for some to go out the window).

But I just don't want to spend months or years of Krav Maga training when there's no real promotion or progress and just asking for money. (I suspected the other Krav Maga group I was with to be like this. I left because I didn't the time for it at that point in my life).


I saw another group which does EsKrima 'and' Wingtsun together. (One hour of eskrima, then two hours of Wingtsun), which I might consider in the near future.

But I'd like to give both of these others a fair chance first.

 

There are several ninjutsu groups that adapt real life situations as part of a training. Friends of me are into it and told me they went in the woods every few weeks to train.

As for krav maga, it depends. I had a small amount of krav maga training during my stay in Hoogkerk (around 4 weeks). I learned some basics up to level 3. Krav maga has (for me) some weird, unnatural techniques, but i did find certain techniques effective. Also, the knife defending with red crayons was awesome.

However, no matter how much you train reallife situations in a dojo, it wont be the same when having a real life issue, but because you subconciously know there is no danger in the dojo. You can however get confident enough in your techniques to perform them, even when scared.

 

Personally i never had any complaints with practising Ninjutsu (Bujinkan Brian Dojo of the Togakure Ryu), yes as stated earlier you will spend a lot of your initial time learning Taijutsu but it is important for a good grounding. There are the more traditional aspects available as well as involving a more spontaneous practical application when I was training, do not expect to begin weapons until you have learned the basics.
I have never studied Krav Maga but on viewing several demonstrations I have to admit it does look to be very practical, but then again a lot of MAs do with a good demo.
My advice would be to try them both and see what you feel more at home with, hope that helps in some way ; )

 

Krav Maga Over Ninjutsu.
>

 

If you were in the BBD then that's probably why you didn't see weapon work for a while, if I recall they tended to leave some of the weapons until shodan.

However in the actual Bujinkan, as in Hatsumi Sensei's organisation as opposed to Mr McCarthy's break away group, then weapon work seems to be in there from day one almost.

While your advice of try both is valid I feel that for the sake of the OP it is worth pointing out that your experience was in a different organisation to the Bujinkan and that the BBD had/has a number of differences to the Bujinkan.

 

Can you give a well thought out reason why?

Maybe you could tell us a bit about your Ninjutsu training.

 

It involved backpacks...he's been sworn to secrecy

 

I was in BBD, there was weapons training, a fair amount of bo staff and tanto, and a lot of bokken.

 

There is a certain level of "theatre" with Ninjutsu that I don't seem to find in KM. I think this is important because anything that tends to draw energy away from the outcome needs to be considered. I have come to view KM as more like Boxing or even Kick-Boxing where there is little room for the arcane, or unproductive. NJ still seems encumbered by the heavy load of past history and schism. I think if a person wants to pursue SD as the focus of their study then, by all means, do just that. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

double post

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

double post


Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

I think he meant some of the more advanced weapon training. Hanbo, Bokken and Tanto were quite commonly trained when I use to train also. We used to do around two hours Taijustu and around an hour of weapons every Saturday.

 

It's possibly changed a great deal over the years, I recall Bo only being taught at Shodan and I cringe now looking back at the sword work.

Kama was in there somewhere too IIRC.

The BBD was such a mix that I don't think you can compare it to Hatsumi Sensei's art or the ryu-ha themselves.

 

I have done both. I still do Krav. I just find the no nonsense keep it simple approach suits me more.

 

Hold onto that kind of thinking, R-B. IMHO thats where the Hapkido arts went wrong. As originally practiced "Hapkido"---known as Hapkiyusool at the time--- was eminently practical and combat-oriented. With the "softening-up", the addition of acrobatic kicks and constant stealing of techniques from other places what commonly passes for Hapkido today is far more Hobby than Martial Art. IMHO.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

I'd recommend ninjutsu over krav maga having done both.
Krav maga in my experience is a bit silly and not actually realistically useful for the most part, unless you're living in a war zone.
Ninjutsu is a good all-round system for self defense type scenarios.