Why did they win the match?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Bozza Bostik, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Edit: Ok, I think this is karate not TKD, sorry, should have spotted that...can a mod move it to the correct place? Thanks.

    I wonder if anyone of you could explain how blue won this highly exciting bloodbath of a match :)

    I get its something to do with passivity and blue was obviously making red back away. But red made a few attempts or starting to go for a kick or fake or whatever.

    But if someone could explain how blue won, I'd greatly appreciate it...my GF might stop banging on about it then.

    https://www.facebook.com/martialartist.me/videos/1439851026055243/
     
  2. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I was just about to post this. People are saying this is Karate comp?

    I personally would've DQ both for no action. Making Red back away, can also be seen as Red trying to goad Blue, with Red testing the waters with the odd fake and chamber.

    I think Red just kept being penalised for going out of boundaries. Don't know what the ruleset is, but if Blue played it that way...then good for her?
     
  3. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    In the comments people are saying it is karate. I think the commentators did say something about karate and the Olympics at 02.07, "Dawn of a new era, Olympic karate" or similar. Dunno myself really, I don't follow anything like this.
     
  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yeah, it's Karate. Not a good sign for it being an exciting Olympic sport.

    I have no idea what was going on, but I did love blue's reaction to winning. How could someone be so ecstatic about that? Hilarious :)
     
  5. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Mega cringe. Makes some wall and stall in mma look like a fight to the death.
     
  6. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    In other sports you award the opponent if you're inactive. So I guess this doesn't have that rule?
     
  7. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Who do you view as inactive?
     
  8. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    Yeah , looked like wkf ruleset Karate and epitomised everything wrong with it.
    I'm not too up on modern regs ,but , there did used to be a penalty for straying too far into the red perimeter zone called "jogi" , so that might be what mushroom was talking about.
     
  9. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    Technically, both. There's only so much circling you can do...tactically or not.

    At least Red lifted a foot once or twice. Blue kinda vibrated around the mat in a static stance.

    Contact sport...make contact.

    Once again though, dont know the ruleset for this particular event. So can only comment on the sport I do and based on other contact sports.
     
  10. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    I feel like this video is a visual representation of what the world would be like if Social Justice Warriors had their way.
     
  11. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    This is why I am opposed to Olympic Karate. It is a disgrace to the sport, even, let alone the traditional martial art underlying it.
     
  12. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    Rules-wise, yeah, at least when I used to compete, getting driven out of the comp area (not counting being launched outside as a side effect of a sttike or takedown) is a minor foul, and a large enough accumulation of minor fouls equals a DQ.
     
  13. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    From a friend's, friends......

    ==============

    I see a lot of question marks. Let me try to provide some context here for those unfamiliar with WKF karate competitions.

    * Who are we seeing ?
    Silvia Semeraro (-68kg) - Italy - already twice European champion

    Marina Rakovic (-68kg) - Montenegro - 3 times bronze medalist in the European Championships.

    * What competition is this ?
    WKF World Championships that took place in Linz (Austria) three weeks ago. This is the biggest karate event worldwide. 1049 athletes were there coming from 110 countries.

    It's not Olympics karate. We'll see the first fights of Olympics karate in 2020 - there are still a lot of unknowns about the precise rules.

    * What karate style are we seeing ?
    It's irrelevant. People can come from any style as long as they fight following WKF rules.

    * Why did blue win the bout?
    Blue won because red was disqualified.
    Basically both received a lot of penalties. In WKF, you can get penalties in Category 1 (Excessive face/throat contact) and Category 2 (Attitude). The latter regroups lots of forbidden behaviors such as
    - refusing to fight
    - holding the opponent with both hands or longer than 1 single action
    - stepping out of the mat
    - insulting, provoking etc.

    Whenever a fighter gets 4 penalties in a single category, they are disqualified.

    Both fighters received 3 penalties for refusing to fight. Red fighter also received 1 penalty for exiting the mat (at 2:30 in the vid). That makes 4 and she takes the boot.

    * Is that a normal way to fight in WKF competitions ?
    No. And this is why Silvia Semeraro (red) was disqualified eventually.
    The soundtrack doesn't render well the amount of booing there was in the audience (I was physically present next to the mat). This highlights how bad this fight was. And it's in no way normal. During the 5 days of this championship, there were hundreds of fights and a lot of action. This was the exception fortunately, not the norm.

    * So why would a high level athlete refuse to fight like this?
    There's a context to take into account. First, the athletes prepared for this competition for months, years. The stakes are very high. Then they had to beat roughly 5 or 6 opponents in their category before reaching the finals. Which means they will meet an opponent at the end with an equivalent technical and conditioning level and often, someone they know quite well and fought before. On top of that, they are sometimes injured from the previous bouts.

    The reasons to not attack are often tactical : reducing the risks to get hit, play with the nerves of the opponent and push them to make a mistake. Basically, you get one Category 2 penalty for each segment of 30s of passivity. It greatly reduces their freedom of action for the rest of the fight.

    * It's like Taekwondo?
    WKF karate is much more like fencing, where the fight is interrupted with each point scored. There's full contact at body level and light contact at the face. I totally understand one can like or dislike this format.

    * Conclusion
    This was a (toS) combat wasn't it? Probably one of the worst I've been given to see in a long while. But again there are boring fights and spectacular fights - just like there are boring soccer games and spectacular soccer games.

    Gladly we could see much better karate in the rest of the competition in Linz.

    Hope it helps!
     
  14. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    What you all don't realise is that in karate one shot will kill, so they are right to be cautious.:whistle:

    In all seriousness this is what happens when you award a point/victory on a moment of contact. You see it in olympic TKD too.

    It's one of the few cases where sport vs street has some validity
     
  15. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    That was horrific. It does happen at the business end of major competitions in all kinds of sports though. Playing to not lose, rather than playing to win.
     
  16. Mushroom

    Mushroom De-powered to come back better than before.

    I think a lot of us know that this would be the rare occurance, based on the rule-set given. And it's easy to sit back and look at it now. But as a Ref (or 5) surely there must also be something in place for a contact sport to be encouraged to make, well, contact and the Ref to verbalise that rule, lest there be also some form of punishment as well.

    Also, saying that. Is it just the 1 round as well? Or is first to X Points or KO?
     
  17. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    penalties. In WKF, you can get penalties in Category 1 (Excessive face/throat contact)

    Everything wrong with a combat sport right there. Both young, healthy adults to scared to take a punch in the face.
     
  18. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    I don't know about karate but in TKD I look for aggressiveness as well as points.
     
  19. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    I think it was more a case of too scared to lose a point or points and the match than fear of getting hit in the face, tough guy. ;)
     
  20. Dan93

    Dan93 Valued Member

    This is what happens when you turn a martial art into a glorified game of tag. Both are too scared to attack in fear of getting tagged ending in this stale mate.

    They should of put Kyokushin knockdown into the Olympics rather than this tripe, at least the audience would mostly understand what is happening not to mention it being more enjoyable to watch then people hopping up and down like they need a wee try to touch each over....
     

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