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  #61  
Old 15-Apr-2007, 02:58 PM
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BGile BGile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SifuJason
Gary,

I got a couple of problems with that last post, although I appreciate it being more cogent that previous ones:

1) you did not give my the single sentence I asked for.

2) that webpage you keep referring to does not contract the Kaju timeline.

3) your evidence isn't any better than the Kaju evidence. I have no reason to think the Kaju history is being dishonest.

4)You, unfortunately, speak in obscure references without primary literature. When I have a question, I go ask my Sifu about it; he was there for most of this stuff. What he tells me jives with the Kaju history, so again, I believe what I hear from people who were there.
Jason,
You are correct in saying that you believe, "a person being there". I believed my Sifu at the time "Johnny Leoning" what he mentioned was not quite the same as what is now being said.

I tried to clairify it.

I could say Sonny Gascon and Johnny Leoning said something different, and Sonny still does not agree with John. The reason he wanted to talk to him when he was in So. Cal... But that meet never happened.

You need to believe in your teachers, because when you don't and doubt takes over, it is best to leave the system. I did.

Gary
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  #62  
Old 15-Apr-2007, 04:16 PM
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DAnjo DAnjo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGile
Jason,
You are correct in saying that you believe, "a person being there". I believed my Sifu at the time "Johnny Leoning" what he mentioned was not quite the same as what is now being said.

I tried to clairify it.

I could say Sonny Gascon and Johnny Leoning said something different, and Sonny still does not agree with John. The reason he wanted to talk to him when he was in So. Cal... But that meet never happened.

You need to believe in your teachers, because when you don't and doubt takes over, it is best to leave the system. I did.

Gary
So you didn't believe Leoning's version of history and left?
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  #63  
Old 15-Apr-2007, 04:25 PM
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BGile BGile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAnjo
So you didn't believe Leoning's version of history and left?

Has nothing to do with Johnny Leoning, different sentence different time and place and as always it seems confusing, for some.

And done that way I might mention on purpose. If you want to talk about it we can start a new thread if you like.

Jason,
An interesting thing, I checked and found this on Charles Goodin site, he is involved with the site which I have posted many times in this thread. He has a lot to do with Karate and Hawaii history of the Martial arts.

When trying to find something on Kajukenbo at the Goodins Blog which is extensive, this is all that came up. Maybe others will try? I also typed in the last name, as you can see Joe is the only one mentioned.
****

Professor Walter Godin

I am sometimes asked if I am related to Professor Walter Godin (1937-2001). Professor Godin learned Kenpo Karate from Joe Emperado and William K. S. Chow.

My last name is "Goodin." Actually, long ago it was spelled "Goodwyne." I am not related to Professor Godin.

However, I can see the possibility for confusion. In high school, I had a Kenpo school which I called "Goodin's Kenpo Karate." I did not know about Professor Godin at that time.

Later and still today, people will ask me, "is Walter your father or uncle?" Now I know who they mean. But I actually did have an uncle Walter who lived in Florida, so you can imagine how confusing it could get.

My good friend Professor Kimo Ferreira learned from -- guess who? -- Professor Godin.

My family moved to Hawaii when I was in the 7th grade. My father was born in Georgia and raised in Florida. My mother was born and raised in Fukuoka, Japan. I was born in Massachussetts. My family on the Goodin side does not have any relatives in Hawaii.

So I am not related to Professor Godin or any Karate teachers in Hawaii.

But I have met a Charles Gooden here in Hawaii who is also a martial arts instructor. He is a muscular African American gentleman, who like me, also has a son named Charles. I do not think that we would be confused as I am somewhat pallid and definitely frail by comparison. How I wish that we could be confused!

Respectfully,

Charles C. Goodin

So:

Maybe you will understand further why I feel many things that are mentioned about Kajukenbo is a very contradictional story. As John pointed out in the preface of his book. Like I mentioned an honest evaluation.

Gary

Last edited by BGile; 15-Apr-2007 at 08:02 PM.
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  #64  
Old 29-May-2007, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGile
John again lets discuss what I asked you about, regarding the book and "kenpo karate" and who coined that?

Why I don't believe it was used right in the first place even if you mention Kenpo was used by others prior as in Motobu etc. In Motobu's book "Karate my Art" are you saying he used Kenpo as a term in the book, and not Kempo and Karate?

If you will notice at the site I posted, in post 30 they give all the glory to W. Chow for the term "Kenpo Karate".

http://seinenkai.com/salute-mitose.html

Kempo and Kenpo are not the same, as far as I am concerned. If you and others don't agree, that is your/their privilage.

I am in disagreement with much of the stories that have come out of your group, you will notice. That is my privilage.

As I mentioned, lets talk to Bill Ryusaki, we can get together anytime you like.

Gary
So, will this be discussed or just allowed to go unanswered. The Bruce Haines book is a perfect example. It was brought up by you and then when questioned further it is dropped.

The Hawaii years, and Mainland Chapter #9. Much of it is about Mitose. His art (Shorinji Kempo-which is Shaolin Chuan fa, Kosho Kempo).

One thing that is interesting about the book "Karate's History and Traditions"
Revised copy, third printing. Much is mentioned about Mitose and his art in Hawaii, his book and Thomas Young.

But nothing mentioned about Kajukenbo or Emperado. Not even Joe this time. Must be because the art was/is called Kenpo Karate by many (chow)? Charles Goodin said he did not mention it, because he was only interested in where the arts came from, not ones developed later in Hawaii. The pure art was a statement?

I am not trying to cause a feud, if I don't name it, just seems like it get's not recongnized (unless there is a perceived attack) Even Danjo avoids this one Hmmm.

Mitose is saying his relatives were still in Japan and he was bound by ties and blood.
Robert Trias is mentioned and his school is officially the first karate school in 1946, teachers are Tong Gee Hsiang and also Choki Motobu, that could be the tie mentioned by you in another post where Sijo Emperado mentions Mitose as a student (not correct).

So can you elaborate on the ideas of Bruce Haines 'master papers" while in college that differ from this edition of his book?

Simple question? If the largest school (#), on the islands was, Kajukenbo, why not one word, nary a mention in this book?

You brought up the book, I am still curious since it was dropped earlier when I introduced Charles Goodin into the discussion?
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  #65  
Old 29-May-2007, 05:00 AM
Nuck Chorris Nuck Chorris is offline
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Quote:
I am not trying to cause a feud
HAHAHAHAHAHA
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  #66  
Old 29-May-2007, 05:19 AM
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BGile BGile is offline
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Originally Posted by Nuck Chorris
HAHAHAHAHAHA
Question's are asked, verification is nice or not, if not answered or ignored that is fine. But not forgotten.

You seem to be someone who would know these things, being the administrator of the forum "Emperado.com". Close ties to the ruling class of Kajukenbo, and all that.

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  #67  
Old 29-May-2007, 05:28 AM
Nuck Chorris Nuck Chorris is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGile
Question's are asked, verification is nice or not, if not answered or ignored that is fine. But not forgotten.

You seem to be someone who would know these things, being the administrator of the forum "Emperado.com". Close ties to the ruling class of Kajukenbo, and all that.

I know all sorts of things Gary. The most important thing that I know is when not to say anything
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  #68  
Old 29-May-2007, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGile
So, will this be discussed or just allowed to go unanswered. The Bruce Haines book is a perfect example. It was brought up by you and then when questioned further it is dropped.

The Hawaii years, and Mainland Chapter #9. Much of it is about Mitose. His art (Shorinji Kempo-which is Shaolin Chuan fa, Kosho Kempo).

One thing that is interesting about the book "Karate's History and Traditions"
Revised copy, third printing. Much is mentioned about Mitose and his art in Hawaii, his book and Thomas Young.

But nothing mentioned about Kajukenbo or Emperado. Not even Joe this time. Must be because the art was/is called Kenpo Karate by many (chow)? Charles Goodin said he did not mention it, because he was only interested in where the arts came from, not ones developed later in Hawaii. The pure art was a statement?

I am not trying to cause a feud, if I don't name it, just seems like it get's not recongnized (unless there is a perceived attack) Even Danjo avoids this one Hmmm.

Mitose is saying his relatives were still in Japan and he was bound by ties and blood.
Robert Trias is mentioned and his school is officially the first karate school in 1946, teachers are Tong Gee Hsiang and also Choki Motobu, that could be the tie mentioned by you in another post where Sijo Emperado mentions Mitose as a student (not correct).

So can you elaborate on the ideas of Bruce Haines 'master papers" while in college that differ from this edition of his book?

Simple question? If the largest school (#), on the islands was, Kajukenbo, why not one word, nary a mention in this book?

You brought up the book, I am still curious since it was dropped earlier when I introduced Charles Goodin into the discussion?
Okay Gary! I'd like to know who spilled the beans to you that there is no Kajukenbo in Hawaii?!? that's supposed to be a big secret, and now you come up with this? Arggghhh!!!
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  #69  
Old 29-May-2007, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by DAnjo
Okay Gary! I'd like to know who spilled the beans to you that there is no Kajukenbo in Hawaii?!? that's supposed to be a big secret, and now you come up with this? Arggghhh!!!
Cute Danjo, lets take another right turn and then two lefts for good measure.

Lets put it this way "Kenpo Karate" was used in the picture of Poncie, Kajukenbo had been around prior, (some say and huge in Hawaii) and the term Kajukenbo was not used because they wanted to cling to the art that was EP Sr's at that date and time.

We need to establish one or the others as what is the name of the organization and when it became that name for real..I'd think Or not.

Sort of like SKSKI, it is still that, and it is also Kosho Ryu Kempo or Kosho Kempo.

http://www.skski.net/kempo.html

So when was it correctly called Kajukenbo and not Hawaiian or Kenpo Karate. So many stories so little time till the next one comes out.
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  #70  
Old 13-Oct-2008, 09:18 PM
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roninmaster roninmaster is offline
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so why is it with all this history people still try to deny that japanese martial arts came from china?
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  #71  
Old 09-Mar-2017, 11:49 AM
SFabrizio SFabrizio is offline
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Great stuff! I practice/study Kempo-Jujitsu. Does anybody have some comments regarding this style that Mitose brought to US? Thank you.

Stephen Fabrizio
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  #72  
Old 09-Mar-2017, 06:59 PM
El Medico El Medico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFabrizio View Post
Great stuff! I practice/study Kempo-Jujitsu. Does anybody have some comments regarding this style that Mitose brought to US? Thank you.

Stephen Fabrizio
Welcome to MAP!

The background of Mitose's training and life are somewhat....murky.

Here,if you wish.Gird thy loins-http://kajukenbo.com/cafe/index.php?topic=24.10;wap2
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