Matvei's training log

Discussion in 'Training Logs' started by matveimediaarts, Apr 19, 2013.

  1. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    This morning, 1 hour kobudo. kihons, sunakake no kon review, more work on kenshin-ryu bo shodan, kumae bo with the new guy.
     
  2. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    Evening, 1.5 hours or so, iaito. Gym shenanigans this morning were the same as last time, except no cardio necessary. Ballet in the afternoon-warmups, adagio, allegro. 1.5 hours total. Getting pretty darn good at tour jete. :D All the extra practice Thursday paid off. :cool: Hoping my back is 100% soon so's I can get back to fun stuff.

    Lovely rainy weather this morning! :D
     
  3. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

  4. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    which is based on your one rep maximum for that particular lift?

    Good advisement. I was wondering the same thing - if whole body lifts were more beneficial than the more limited muscle-group variety. But doesn't powerlifting include such things as the bench press - which is a more isolated exercise?
     
  5. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Bench press is a whole body lift when done powerlifting style.

    In my view, isolation exercises are specific, and therefore should be used to address a specific problem.
    E.g. an insufficient sized muscle group (biceps and middle delts for the beach), or a particular weakness that is holding back a big lift (weak gluteus medius meaning knees drift in when squatting). Isolation exercises allow you to train these specific elements with a much lower recovery cost albeit at a higher time cost. As recovery cost isn't really a significant issue for a beginner, isolation stuff isn't worth the time cost (IMO).

    In my mind, isolation stuff is supplementary to compound stuff/the big lifts.

    A beginner doing an isolation focused programme is akin to someone looking to fix their diet by using all the most expensive supplements and shakes, but still just drinking every day, eating crisps and mcdonalds, then wondering why they aren't setting the results they want.
    Surely it's logical to fix the big things first (eat enough protein, veggies and sensible carbs from food you cook yourself, try to limit the crap, drink enough water and sleep enough) before worry about whether you're taking enough l-glutamine, or whether you should have 1 or 2 scoops of pre-workout... Don't major in the minors!

    Anyway, Matvei, this is why I asked you about your goals, and where your programme came from, and why you are doing it.
    The answer "because coach said so" is perfectly legit as long as coach knows what's best for you...

    If your goal is to get stronger for MA and ballet, then I'm not convinced your coach/gym trainer knows what's best for you, as your programme looks like an intermediate bodybuilding split training routine, rather than a beginner strength routine.

    "Why am I doing this?" Is a great question to ask yourself on a regular basis.

    I would encourage you to consider trying out a routine with compound exercises with heavy* weight for low (ish) reps until you have learnt the movement (hint: if deadlifts hurt your back you're not doing them right).

    *heavy is relative, what I mean is heavy enough to challenge you, but not so heavy your form breaks down (as this trains improper motor patterns if you do it too often).

    Once you have a programme which you are pretty sure is aligned with your goals, then the answer "because coach [the programme] says so" becomes perfectly legit :D

    I hope I don't come across as having a go, I really want to help you out. Either way, whether you decide to change your programme or not, each takes admirable character traits: perseverance and determination to carry on the same path, courage and humility to change course.

    I'll leave you with two part question based on an assumption: if the goal is to move your body better (in a stronger way which is partly inter- and intra-muscular coordination) for ballet and martial arts, then why not concentrate your training in the weight room in a coordinated "whole body" way - you are not Frankenstein's Monster (a simple collection of body parts), so why train that way?
     
  6. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    In the AM, 1.5 hours ballet. Adagio, allegro, grande allegro. Getting a better hang of tour en l'aire and tour jete. Back is still niggling me, so not what I would like.

    Took Harry's advice and created a routine more aimed at strength.
    3x8 or to fail for these:
    Front squat
    (light) back squat (just till my back/neck are 100%)
    barbell thrusters
    kettle bell swings
    deadlifts
    barbell rows
    pullups
    sumo deadlift
    Romanian deadlift
    flat bench press, dumbell/barbie
    incline/decline bench press
    Push press
    power cleans
    hang cleans.

    Also snuck in some ankle flexion goodness and climbing shenannigans waiting for my ride to show up.

    Will give this another go Friday and Monday and see how it works out. Any criticisms are welcome. :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
  7. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    Cheers, mate! :google:
     
  8. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Helps a great deal, clears up some misconceptions I've been walking about with since forever (canna say how I came by them, exactly)


    That's been, heretofore, my speciality. Hoping to switch Majors soon :)
     
  9. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Nice going!

    If I can offer some more suggestions...

    1) In my mind, quality is more important than quantity which is more important than load
    2) do fewer exercises. Do one exercise per 'fundamental movement pattern'*
    3) do fewer 'work' reps. Shoot for maybe 10-15, so 6x1, 5x2, 3x3, 5x3, 3x5. The longer the set, the more likely it is you'll do more reps of lower quality (see point #1)
    4) warm up to your 'work' reps by using steps of lighter weight (e.g. if you are looking to squat 100kg for 5 sets of 2 reps, you might do 8 reps with 40kg, 5 reps with 60kg, 3 reps with 80 kg, 1 rep with 90kg, then your 5 work sets of 2 reps with 100kg)
    5) drop the "train to failure" attitude with compound movements. Train to win, don't train to lose. Training to failure increases the likelihood of training more reps with poor form or improper range of motion, see point #1. If you feel like you are close to failure, stop and call it a day, congratulate yourself on your 100% success rate of high quality reps.
    6) track the weights used (whether you do that here or somewhere else doesn't matter), so you make sure you are improving. Provided that you are keeping your reps perfect (quality), then being able to do perfect sets of 3 with something you were previously doing perfect sets of 2 counts as an improvement (quantity), then when it feels light, add a bit more weight (load), provided you don't sacrifice quality.

    * fundamental movement patterns =
    1) squat
    2) hinge (at the hips)
    3) push
    4) pull
    5) "other"/gait/put it all together

    push and pull can be horizontal or vertical, so maybe there are 7 categories...

    Category 5 is all of the 'other' planes of motion, so something like the Turkish Getup might fall in to 'other', or perhaps a one-armed overhead split squat, or Martial Arts, or Ballet...

    Looking at your last workout and grouping them by movement pattern, you have:

    Front squat (1)
    back squat (1)
    barbell thrusters (1 and 3)
    kettle bell swings (2)
    deadlifts (2 and 4)
    barbell rows (4)
    pullups (4)
    sumo deadlift (2 and 4)
    Romanian deadlift (2 and 4)
    flat bench press (3)
    incline/decline bench press (3)
    Push press (3)
    power cleans (2 and 4)
    hang cleans (2 and 4)

    Lots of overlap, and although it's fun to do lots of different exercises, you may find it more resourceful to specialise in one for each movement pattern. To me, this is the difference between 'exercise' and 'training'. Anyone can get 'tired', not everyone gets 'better'.

    So, pick one exercise for each movement pattern and get really good at that one before changing.

    Some exercises cover multiple patterns, but you might not be able to load them optimally for both patterns, so might not be appropriate. Deadlifts are great for covering hinge (2), and also cover pull (4) but do so with straight arms and quite a short range of motion. Thrusters cover squat (1) and push (3), but the load is likely to be limited by your push strength rather than your squat strength.

    Let's see if you can get great results from the fewest exercises and the least work. How about you go with (from your list):

    Deadlifts, front squats, push press and pull ups.

    Get really skilled at doing high quality reps of these exercises, increase the reps gradually, increase the weight gradually, make sure quality is maintained, become more awesome.

    You may consider doing something like this: pick a weight you know you can do for 5 reps, 100kg for example, then:

    workout 1 (week 1, Mon) - warm up (see recommendation above), then 6x1 @100kg
    workout 2 (week 1, Weds) - warm up, then 5x2 @100kg
    workout 3 (week 1, Fri) - warm up, then 3x3 @100kg
    - add 5%, drop back down the rep range, carry on
    workout 4 (week 2, Mon) - warm up, then 6x1 @105kg
    workout 5 (week 2, Weds) - warm up, then 5x2 @105kg
    workout 6 (week 2, Fri) - warm up, then 3x3 @105kg
    - add 5%, drop back down the rep range
    workout 7 (week 3, Mon) - warm up, then 6x1 @110kg

    and so on, provided every rep is 100% quality

    If it feels too easy, brilliant, concentrate on quality, maybe add some weight. If it feels too hard, take some weight off and concentrate on quality. If it's a challenge but you can do it, great, do it and concentrate on quality.

    :D
     
  10. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    1.5 hours ballet. Made some silly flubs :/ but it was good practice. Tours jete is fun! So is saute and turns en l'aire.

    Did some private consult with my teacher about priouette en dehors on left leg. I thought her method of explaining it was useful. Just start in 4th postion, slide the feet into 1st and begin the turn from there-emphasizing "up" more than "around". :)
     
  11. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    Harry, I'm going to start your suggested programme Monday (or perhaps Friday if you respond soon enough) to keep it simple. I don't quite understand your shorthand. When you say "warm up (see recommendation above), then 6x1 @100kg", etc, do you mean that I would do deadlifts, front squats, push press, and pullups all at 6x1 and at a comfortable but challenging weight?
     
  12. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    This really should be made a sticky. I see now how many things I've been doing wrong - my whole approach, really. Particularly the 'training to failure' - which I always did with respects to dumbell work - always did reps till I couldna lift anymore - often sacrificing form - slaughtering it more the like with bent backs and so forth getting the last rep up over my head.
     
  13. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    There's a time and a place for everything, and yeah, sometimes it's great to beast yourself in to the ground and crank out every rep you possibly can, final form be damned, even if it's just to demonstrate to yourself that you can do it. However, I don't think it should be a regular thing... 'Training' and 'Testing' are different things.

    Cool.
    Do you know your one rep maxes for deadlift, front squat and push press? For pull ups/chin ups, what's the maximum number of reps you can do with proper form and full range of motion?

    We can take those, and, for the barbell movements, start at 70% of your max and add 2.5%-5% every week, then for the bodyweight movements add one rep per session (e.g. if you can do 5 reps as a max, then start with 5 sets of 3 (3,3,3,3,3), then 4,3,3,3,3, then 4,4,3,3,3 ... 4,4,4,4,4, then 5,4,4,4,4 etc etc)

    Sound like a plan? I really hope this works for you :D
     
  14. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    If properly warmed up, my 1RM deadlift is currently 100-120 lbs. Front squat- not too much, 80-90 lbs. (kind of embarrassed to admit that, as my back squat is so much better...but I've been doing that for much longer...)
    Pullups in strict form (overhand grip, shoulder width)-I tend to max at 4-5 most days. Chinups are easier-I max at ~8-10 reps.

    I like the sound of your plan. :hat: :) I'm going to make notes and give it a solid try Monday. :hat::cool: Will report in here after I do it.
     
  15. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    I gotta log my routine from today before I forget!

    Skipped oly lifts

    3x5 for all this stuff...

    Tricep kickback, various weights
    tricep press, various weights
    tricep pull down, various weights-maxed at 50 lbs, IIRC
    dips at the dip station
    scarecrow rotation
    leg press, 330 lbs
    front squats
    bicep curls
    concentration curls
    standing flyes
    reclined flyes
    inward cable flyes
    dumbell shrugs, standing and in zen
    leg extension
    ankle flexion

    played around with jumping on the pullup bars and other shennanigans and a bit of other cardio while waiting for my ride.

    The End.
     
  16. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    This morn-1.5 hours kobudo or so. Mostly bo basics, but I cornered one of the new guys and got him to practice kumae bo with me. :D It was weird. I thought I knew kihon 15 cold, but I went to try it and it was gone. :eek:
     
  17. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    This morning-ballet, 1.5 hours; stretching, adagio, allegro.

    Gym shenannigans-
    experimental (playing with recent suggestions in this log from Harry-see previous page):
    highest weight possible for 5 reps for all these:
    front squat
    push press
    pull ups
    bonus, cuz I had time:
    bicep curls
    ankle flexion
    calf raises

    a bunch of HIIT. 20-30 minutes or so.

    Started playing with straps today. Pretty interesting, and I'll continue using them in the future, except on my grip exercises, of course. :)

    So, did I do it right, Harry? :) Or perhaps a big fail? :/
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2015
  18. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    Compound movements? Check!
    Lower reps? Check!
    Heavier weights? Check!
    Save isolation until after? Check!

    Looking good to me mate.

    Quick questions:
    For each exercise, did you do 1 set of 5 reps, or 5 sets of 1 rep?
    What was your warm up like for each exercise?
    Are you recording what weights you are using for each somewhere (track your progress)?
    How did you feel afterwards? Refreshed? Beaten up?
    I hope it works for you :D
     
  19. matveimediaarts

    matveimediaarts Underappreciated genius

    I did 1 set of 5. I did one long stretch and warmup before starting (and had done ballet not too long before), so warmup before each exercise was practically nothing. Just enough to feel better. I felt refreshed after. Should I feel beaten up? I've had trainers in the past who insist that one has to take a real beating to get "better".

    I didn't keep excellent track of the weights this time. I should have. :bang: I just picked a weight I felt I could comfortably use for 5 reps. How long do I need to try this before I know if it's the right program for me? Cheers!
     
  20. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    I'll try to refer to some of my earlier posts, maybe I overloaded the information...

    Reps per set/per workout
    I meant for you to do 10 to 15 total 'work' reps (i.e. reps that aren't part of your warm up). We'll look at loading the barbell movements in a bit based on your maxes.

    Bodyweight exercises
    So for pull ups (overhand, strict), if I were in your position, I'd start with 3 sets of 3 reps, and if your third set feels good, add a fourth set. For progression, look to add one set per session until you have 5 sets, then add one rep per session like in my quote.

    Warm up
    The warm up for each movement should be (in my mind) that same movement, but with lighter weight (we'll look at this in a bit when we look a loading)

    Feeling afterwards
    Great!
    It's sometimes hard to get your head around a training session NOT leaving you beaten up, especially if you've had that "go hard or go home" attitude drilled in to you (as I have had historically). I think beating yourself up is of limited value. If you can leave the weight room feeling great, and STILL get the results you want, then it would be stupid not to do it that way.

    If you can, I would aim to feel 'refreshed' and/or 'uplifted' after the majority of your sessions. Yes, there's a balance between working 'hard enough' and 'overreaching', and that's something you need to determine with experience :)

    Loading
    OK, I was trying to avoid an answer along the lines of "just do this" as I'm usually more of a "here are some ideas for you to try" guy, but hey ho :)

    Right, based on what you said:
    Just do this!

    General warm up
    Do whatever you feel you have to do to get the blood flowing a bit, just as long as it doesn't make you tired.
    My 'general warmup' is usually the 10 minute walk to the gym :D

    Exercise 1 - deadlift
    Current max - 120lb, first workout 'working' weight = 70% of 120 = 85lb.
    Warm up
    1x5 (1 set of 5 reps) with empty bar (45lb), once you pick the bar up from the floor and do your first rep, only lower it to mid shin (ish), so the 'bottom' position is the same as when you put the big diameter plates on.
    1x3 with 65lb (same 'lowering' protocol as above)
    Work
    6x1 (6 sets of 1 rep) with 85lb

    Exercise 2 - front squat
    Current max - 90lb, first workout 'working' weight = 70% of 90 = 65lb (rounded to nearest 5lb).
    Warm up
    1x5 x 45lb
    1x3 x 55lb
    Work
    6x1 x 65lb

    Exercise 3 - push press
    Current max - (unknown, assume 90lb), first workout 'working' weight = 70% of 90 = 65lb (rounded to nearest 5lb).
    Warm up
    1x5 x 45lb
    1x3 x 55lb
    Work
    6x1 x 65lb

    Exercise 4 - pull ups
    Current max - 5 reps in one set, first workout 'working' set = 5-2 = 3 reps.
    Warm up
    meh
    Work
    3 sets of 3 reps

    Exercise 5 - whatever you want after this, but don't beat yourself up so you are raring to go when you come back.

    Progression of the working reps:
    For all barbell exercises, keep the working weight the same through the week (assuming 3 workouts per week, M-W-F) but change the reps like so:
    M - 6x1 (6 sets of 1 rep)
    W - 5x2 (5 sets of 2 reps)
    F - 3x3 (3 sets of 3 reps)
    Each week, add 5lb to the working weight of each exercise.

    IF the weights feel "too light", add 10lbs at the end of the week. The purpose is to get lots of perfect reps in, progress steadily, and track your progress, but don't add so much so quickly that you start struggling too much (grinding out reps, failing reps etc).

    For pull ups, add one set per session until you have 5 sets (which will be by the end of the first week), then add one rep per session like so you do 4,3,3,3,3, then 4,4,3,3,3, then 4,4,4,3,3

    Give it 12 weeks and see how you go. If all the weights feel easy and you add 10lb per week, then your deadlift and front squat will go up by 120lb in those 12 weeks, and you'll have got 300 or so perfect working reps in. Does a 240lb deadlift and a 200lb front squat sound like an attractive goal?
     

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