Ah right. That's kind of the other way of looking at what I was saying. I was saying that you cannot control range, meaning that if you are trying to keep someone out of range, that is not usually possible. They will eventually be able to close the distance unless something physically stops them or you run away successfully. Red zone is somewhat unique in my mind in that even lesser skilled folks can exchange blows in the red zone. I usually go back to the knife example. Would you want to trade blows with a knife? If you stay in the red zone, there is a much better chance of trading blows than other ranges. IMHO.
A knife changes the game somewhat. I agree with what you are saying, but in terms of fights that are decided in a handful of blows or a takedown and pounding, if you can enter the red zone and smash people, then it is your friend. If you have to finish someone quickly, as in you have a degree of panic due to weapons or their size or skill, then you either run away or you get them down where you can stomp them at your leisure. From the sucker punches I have seen, getting good at very short range punches is a good way to end fights before they happen.
WC is a good starting point. But I don't think WC should be the ending point. May be that's why the "modern WC" is created. The day that you try to test your fighting skill in Sanda/Sanshou, or MMA, the day that you may find out that you will need more tools in your toolbox. In Taiwan, many people learned Judo, wrestling before they started to compete in the Sanda/Sanshou tournament. At least they would need to learn how to catch a kicking leg and then take their opponents down. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqyZvGXZJPY&feature=youtu.be"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqyZvGXZJPY&feature=youtu.be[/ame]
Agree with your definition of "inch punch". Many MA styles use this approach. For example, the Taiji "brush knee" that you don't generate force until your fingers touch on your opponent's chest. It's the "body chase hand" approach that your hand go first, your body then chase after it. It's good in theory. Whether it has any combat value, I haven't seen it yet.
Agreed. I pointed out that red zone is where the most damage is done typically in fights. It is just dangerous because of the tendency to trade blows the longer one stays in the red zone.
Head movement in arts like karate is combined with attacks, so it sort of depends on what attacks are used. Head movement (side to side) is in many of the basic stance work of karate and other unarmed striking arts. I think the issue is that it isn't put into context later on or maybe never. The level change head movement (up down) is found more in self-defense applications and is less useful against kicks. Okay I really wish I could find a better video, but I didn't. The following is a basic exercise that if given the right context is supposed (IMHO) to develop head movement from the legs: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IEMBUQ0JU0"]Combination Side Punch & Reverse Punch | Shaolin Kung Fu - YouTube[/ame] The key is to work the movement to develop the leg strength. Most don't focus on the legs in this type of exercise, instead focusing on the hip rotation. If you focus on the legs and not the hip rotation then the exercise becomes one of developing head movement. The other issue is the way the head turns. Keep the head over the shoulders and the chin tucked... in other words, instead of keeping the head towards the target, when punching to the left side, you will have to use your peripheral vision to see the target because you will no longer be looking straight at the target. Also in movements shifting between back stance and front stance, like in Kihon Kata dai San (an unofficial Goju Ryu form): [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9lcq_u793s"]Kihon Kata dai San - Joris - YouTube[/ame] A demonstration of using the head movement in sparring I go to Mas Oyama at 15+ seconds in the following video: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FteS-NxwXsA"]Mas Oyama Video Clips - YouTube[/ame] The head movement is done with each attack/counter.
'Modern' is really getting back to the original traditional Wing Chun history which wasn't limited to what most people think about Wing Chun today (ie Donnie Yen). The challenge is can they make it real enough, and honestly...maybe. Why not, why can't you take these old styles and make them right again. That's my opinion anyway. Clinch with a traditional Wing Chun master, he'd have been well versed in basic grappling, Wing Chun would not be his general fighting skills like shuai jiao et cetera, but his 'best technique', which in the case of Wing Chun is direct centerline attacks. If you imagine Mike Tyson as what ancient Wing Chun was like, it's a lot easier to swallow the idea that this was once someone's "specialty", but that if you neglect the huuuge range of fighting overall, and only train Wing Chun forms, and then get into a fight with almost anyone....you're gonna have a bad time Great strikers can get taken out by a good shoot and a hyper extended striking limb.
You try to circle around your opponent and try to move into his blind side, or even behind him. I have seen it in long fist, Bagua, Chinese wrestling. I have not seen it in other MA styles especially the southern CMA systems.
Okay, I see you are using circle footwork with a purpose. So wouldn't the following be included in circle footwork if the purpose was to get to the blindside? [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CGvYmA04JY"]Star Footwork Drill - YouTube[/ame] Also about head movement in forms. I was pointing out that head movement is part of attacking in forms when the focus of the form is on developing the footwork/legs to protect the head while attacking. Head movement alone may be good against "head hunting punches" but really isn't that great against kicks: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOQcJ63vkFE"]Drunken Style Kung Fu Vs. Karate -Bullshido.net - YouTube[/ame] So development of head movement should take into account kicks too. I find developing head movement combined with elbow strikes provides that extra cover against kicks.
A lot of high level Thai boxers insist that head movement is the only correct way to deal with kicks to the head: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aYB70vFR7w"]Kaensak Technique 3: Muay Thai head kick defense - YouTube[/ame]
This isnt strictly true , the whole idea ties in with the southern Chinese and hakka mind set of once the hand travels out it doesn’t return so you can generate power without withdrawing the hand, or generate it from any position, paul whitrod will demonstrate it will elbow bent at the start of a strike and finish it there dropping his opponent from extremely close clinch range, he looks at the wing chun version as a stage show, of course this is a demo and I have yet to see anyone pull it of in free fighting It also ties in with the whole idea of having a guard extended occupying the centre making your opponent have to move round your guard, there’s no point having an extended guard if you have to withdraw your hands every time you want to generate power….again I have yet to see anyone actually generate real force from this type of guard, and some of the clips here show the danger of holding your hands out-front with your chin up when your opponent likes to throw hooks or even wild haymakers Like a lot of Chinese stuff it sounds great in theory but I have yet to actually see anyone pull this off, luckily some of the chinese styles just like to throw hooks and uppercuts put on gloves and hit each other, looks like kick boxing but that isn’t a bad thing As for the whole trapping range, I agree it not a real range, however if you don’t actually spar, don’t allow your style to clinch or ever face anyone that does clinch, create an artificial training environment where you are forced to play at that range for extended time, you might over time come to believe it is a range and come to believe fights actually spent extended amounts of time at that range......
It's really the stage show version of the power generation mechanics; leg drive, hip torque, and good alignment. Literally the same stuff you'd use throwing a right straight in boxing only based off the heel and using a lot more quad drive. Well you don't strike with the lead hand of the guard so it's a moot point. When you use the guard extended out fully every strike has to be a cross because the lead hand is at max range. That standard guard is far more useful at conversation range for self defence work. If you're sport fighting it becomes a bad idea, at which point you crush it back a bit and it becomes the same type of guard you'd see in boxing. Same principles apply you just now have the jab as a tool as well because the lead hand isn't at max range.
And yet we see a fair few clips of wing chun (there's one on this thread) where gloves are warn you are in a sparring match and the same guard is used, in fact the only clips I can remember of a more collapsed boxng like guard comes from Alan orrs guys and most Wing chun guys say that's not true wing chun?
I don't know about the the only correct way. Is that what is being said in the video, that it is the only way? The technique in the video is a delay. It can be done with a hop back and/or lean back. I prefer the hop back because it moves the feet. I don't want to sound like I'm backtracking, but the delay (lean back) is only half of the head movement. It is the evasion away that is good against almost any high line attack, including kicks. The rest of the head movement is when the body/head snaps back forward. IME, the snap back is risky and not so great if you snap back into a spinning kick or a straight punch.
Many years ago, a Thai boxer challenged a wrestler in Taiwan. That wrestler went to his teacher to get some strategy. His teacher said, "If you don't know how to kick/punch, do you know how to take kick/punch?" In that match, the wrestler took the Thai boxer's kick and took him down after that. From a "general" MA point of view, dodging doesn't solve the problem. If you dodge once, you will need to dodge twice. How many times do you want to dodge? It's like when your opponent - grabs on your wrist. You can break it apart. But your opponent will grab you back again. - pushes you back, you will come back again. - ... IMO, the only way that you can stop your opponent from keep kicking you is to catch that kicking leg, or punching arm and take him down. You may not be able to do that in a pure "striking" sport. But in "striking + grappling" sport, it's the best solution. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqyZvGXZJPY"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqyZvGXZJPY[/ame]
Kick catching is an integral part of Thai boxing. It usually result in either a throwaway and return fire or a dump of the opponent. So yeah it's a good strategy.
Normaly I agree when I have seen your posts and they make sense. I disagree there's no benefit to waiting. Less telegraph, sneaky, more speed. The other end of the scale is big haymakers seen coming a mile off, everything put in from the start, slow. It also facilitates hand fighting and clinch in the sense that putting your hands out and attempting to control someone's guard, or hand fight and clinch...come off slightly and pop a shot in....back to controlling their guard, hand fighting, clinch. Seen all the time in Muay Thai fights. People are commenting they are not seeing it in fights.....well that's the point. It won't be seen clearly. It's a feelings from the fighter. That's more important than an observer seeing it. And in my opinion it can see it in good strikers. It's very subtle ,but it's there. Like I say the concept itself is more important than style and training in a good boxing or Thai boxing gym is better than learning a one inch in wing chun punch , I just think the idea behind it has been lost.
Because that's what people are used to training with because the system is meant to be transferable between weapons and empty hand SD. It's a failure to adjust that to context. It's just like how you see a lot of guys fight from yee gee kim yeung ma which, again, is specialized for weapons and empty hand SD. Using a slightly opened tsui ma, which then resembles a stance commonly taught in boxing, is much better. You can now do that because you don't have to use 13 inch blades to defend your legs against 30 inch blades and pole arms. I mean I can use the Philly shell as wing chun. It's literally just the close quan sao from the muk yan jong, and now you can use the shoulder to block because you don't have to worry about weapons. It's a failing in understanding why the tools do what they do, why they're trained the way they're trained, where they come from, and where you need to use some of the other tools due to the adjusted context of mutually agreed competitive fighting. That's because Alan's stuff is devoid of wing chun structure, footwork, body alignment, power generation methods, structures, hand techniques, heel root, etc. even when he's just demoing his "wing chun" stuff; not because of the type of guard they're using. As far as I know Leung Ting is the only one who advises his students to hyper extend their own arms while punching :bang: And You Know Who, as for head movement in forms, wing chun actually does include slipping in the muk yan jong form. It's just not preferentially used because it only helps with empty hand vs empty hand, like a lot of the stuff I mentioned above.
