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  #136  
Old 12-Jun-2010, 10:48 AM
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CKava CKava is offline
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Originally Posted by DaynD View Post
i looked up "Sukyo Mahikari" and found that it has spread world-wide, in it's seminal form. It is related to 世界救世教 Sekai Kyūsei Kyō, one of the Japanese "new religions".

I would be fascinated to hear about it's congruence, if any to Amatsu Tatara. Amulets are, apparently, an essential part of Sukyo Mahikari, et al.
Really good replies DaynD! Welcome to MAP. A fair part of my university studies have primarily focused around Japanese religions so I have a lot of resources on the Japanese New (and New New) Religious Movements. I'd recommend having a look through some of the articles on the Japanese Journal of Religious Studies which has its entire back issues available free online. That's usually a good place to start when looking for good research on Japanese religions.
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  #137  
Old 12-Jun-2010, 05:10 PM
jameswhelan jameswhelan is offline
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Hello again Prof DeRose,

What excellent contributions (please post here more!). Are you a member of Mr Kiyomoto's training group? Do you visit Japan for training?
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  #138  
Old 12-Jun-2010, 06:40 PM
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Um..uh.."At-rhan-tis"

Wow;

Thanks!


I had never seen some of that and what I hadn't seen was really telling; it may well be that the foreign researchers who maintain that Yonaguni is likely a natural formation have western style buildings in the back of their minds. Once I saw the Old Okinawan "castle" structures, I looked at the underwater structures with a completely different eye.

Of course, there would have to be a long chain sporting strong links to start from these fascinating (alleged) ruins and end with martial systems, etc., tracing a lineage back to a lost, "sun-source" civilization.

- What I mean by this are the claims I've actually heard that Kuki family martial arts are that old and of that lineage. BTW - not from anyone who has anything to do with MAP, as far as I can tell. These were verbal statements.

I am reminded of several "cross-cultural" similarities;

-Native American groups who claim "We didn't migrate here across the Bering Strait, we were ALWAYS here". Japanese people who believe that the undersea ruins are the original Japanese culture are (to my mind) harkening back to the Shinto foundation myths. One has to be cautious about finding things, research-wise, that one wants to find.

- Parallels, which may be entirely fictional, connecting Europe's great "Island Empire", Great Britain, to Atlantis, via additions to the myths of King Arthur. It may be that "linkage" of this sort is almost irresistable.

- Plato's description of Atlantis was of a nation which was very advanced, both as a civilization and particularly in the arts of war - but only by "indication" and on a strategic/tactical scale; i.e., how successful they were and how very much they threatened the Greeks. A fascinating legend has to have "teeth"; mystery stories are almost required to feature murders, etc.; it might not be enough to simply state that an ancient civilization was "there". "Great", in history, generally is spelt "Great Kingdom" or "Great Empire".

- (I add this without religious value judgement, PLEASE) the Book of Mormon really describes the rise and fall of 3 principal, advanced, Pre-Columbian Civilizatiions in the US. As it turns out, there were, including the Anasazi, and the Northern & Southern Mound-Builders, at least 3. Still, this, in and of itself, does not factually validate (nor argue against) the rest of the statements made in the Book of Mormon. Scholars research and debate about this.

In this last, I am referring to difficulties in analysis and not making any judgement about the validity of dearly held, honest beliefs!


Though I'm being cautious, I do have to admit, I'm childishly fascinated by this stuff.
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  #139  
Old 12-Jun-2010, 06:49 PM
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DaynD DaynD is offline
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Arigato Gozaimasu

i am..moved; I mean it; what can I say?

Mr. Whelan, I'm not a professor at Drew (I was an adjunct once), I'm the Head Fencing Coach. There are distinct problems with coaching young people who are then impetuous enough to take a class you teach. I would, if need be, kill for the Drew Fencing Alumni/ae. My duties lay there - however foolishly.

I do visit Japan; I'd love to train and do to increase my acquaintance with Martial Arts.

I am not a member of Banke Shinobinoden; I have stated that I am their firm friend.

Don't encourage me too much; just as with anyone who "talks for a living"
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  #140  
Old 12-Jun-2010, 08:05 PM
jameswhelan jameswhelan is offline
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Thanks for that. I quite agree with you regarding "linkages", and would add that critical faculties, or lack of, contribute to this too. By that I mean, a critaclly minded reader will come away from Timaeus and Critias pondering the folly of Utopianism and the nature of corruption. The uncritical reader will be wondering how best he can get hold of a submarine.

Last edited by jameswhelan; 13-Jun-2010 at 02:40 PM.
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  #141  
Old 13-Jun-2010, 09:51 PM
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Lordy; you sent me back to my book shelf to re-read with a school-boy's guilt!


Silv; My abject apologies if I've offended you; you're comments about Ishida indicate that either you came to the Drew Seminar, practice in Spain or are a student of Banke Shinobinoden Kensyujo. We could bring out a lot of good information if we discussed such things on-line. Are you still out there?

All I think I did (well, what I tried) was to put it all in context. I don't think Kawakami Soshike looks any worse for full-disclosure!
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  #142  
Old 01-Apr-2017, 09:03 PM
PookieNumnums PookieNumnums is offline
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it seems this is a very old thread but a few things id like to mention then a link to post

firstly, hatsumi soke has been practicing ninjutsu almost longer than kawakami has been alive.

the amount of recognition alone worldwide deserves some acknowledgement if not for ninjutsu, for character.

are public records not a thing in japan? was it so long ago that hatsumi soke's teacher was alive that there is no paper documentation of his lineage? Is the burden on them to prove their disciplic lineage? Who is better, the guy trained by a ninja or the guy related to one?

anyhow,

here is a recent video showing you exactly what type of ninja kawakami is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3vkZ5pkkj8

as suggested nine years ago, its about marketing. the fact that this 'last ninja' is in cahoots with the japanese government to bring tourism and revenue to japan through the promotion of ninjutsu on such a wide scale suggests to me that its not about ninja, its about that dough.

these dudes seem like flakes somewhat, at least from the video. AND the video they play at the beginning shows the ninja teleporting around short distances running through the woods... they also say that they appreciate the widespread ideals of ninja throughout the world portrayed in movies and anime...

Meanwhile, Masaaki in more recent video than the above posted on the same channel says that the portrayal of ninja on tv and literature is often incorrect.

I am not trying to say one is more or less authentic, as im no expert and havent met either of them. But there are plenty of videos on youtube and tapes you can buy, and if you check them out who do you feel is more of a 'master'? The guy trying to popularize ninja again in mainstream society by opening up a 'ninja-academy' who wants to get ninja-lifestyle into every aspect of japanese life? Or the guy who talks about the philosophy and reasoning behind ninjutsu belief and technique?

I have a lot more watching of both to do. Learn from both sides i say..

As a final note, ive not been able to (as of yet) find any opinion from either side in regards to each other.
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  #143  
Old 01-Apr-2017, 09:05 PM
PookieNumnums PookieNumnums is offline
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oh yeah, forgot to add,

if you were the dude trying to help 'make ninja great again'

would you want another person out there who's style is 'more authentic' than yours?

It would be nice if they joined forces for the sake of all ninja.
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  #144  
Old 02-Apr-2017, 01:35 PM
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I don't think anyone is trying to make ninja great again

Probably they are trying to pass on important lessons from history (& in some cases cash in on tourism)
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  #145  
Old 02-Apr-2017, 04:29 PM
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if you were the dude trying to help 'make ninja great again'

.
And the emperor will pay for it!!

Lock him up.... lock him up!!!!
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  #146  
Old 10-Apr-2017, 11:52 PM
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Well that was entertaining. Sai? really?
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  #147  
Old 11-Apr-2017, 01:52 PM
JibranK JibranK is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PookieNumnums View Post
here is a recent video showing you exactly what type of ninja kawakami is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3vkZ5pkkj8

as suggested nine years ago, its about marketing. the fact that this 'last ninja' is in cahoots with the japanese government to bring tourism and revenue to japan through the promotion of ninjutsu on such a wide scale suggests to me that its not about ninja, its about that dough.

these dudes seem like flakes somewhat, at least from the video. AND the video they play at the beginning shows the ninja teleporting around short distances running through the woods... they also say that they appreciate the widespread ideals of ninja throughout the world portrayed in movies and anime...

Meanwhile, Masaaki in more recent video than the above posted on the same channel says that the portrayal of ninja on tv and literature is often incorrect.
I have no dog in this fight, but I have seen videos like that from Bujinkan people as well. (Yes, I agree that that video you linked to is terrible but what is the context of it?)

In fact, Hatsumi Sensei starred in a Power Rangers type ninja TV show (which I would love to watch). Here is the intro: http://youtu.be/zWpqz1RCTsM

The authenticity (or lack thereof) of a practitioner or tradition can't, in my opinion, be verified or disproved because of the media material that they participate in.

Obata Sensei, for instance, studied under Yagyu Sensei, Nawa Sensei, and others... but he did some fight choreography for and played a role in the Ninja Turtles movie. Does that render his training false?
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