Comparison of Judo and Taijutsu throws?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by Kframe, Jul 26, 2014.

  1. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Absolutely. I'm a 2 lesson Judo veteran myself. :)
    I think the more general consensus on training for SD is to go somewhere that trains for that (not a judo club with totally different aims and goals). With your valid points also applying.
    Although for SD I don't think training for equal skill in stand up, clinch and ground is necessarily the way to go....striking will always tend to be the main focus with ground as the support system I think.
     
  2. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I would agree, kind off......

    I think unattached striking first and foremost is important, but theres definatly diminishing returns there after the first few years. After that the limiting factor re: SD (in all its forms) is clinch and ground. and that's only approaching the unarmed physical response.

    SD specialised places can be excellent, but mostly arnt, they either dont have a solid legal and ethical framework in place, or dont have the physical skills to match.
     
  3. NZ Ninja

    NZ Ninja Live wire.

    Dunno if its been said as dont have time to read all responses. The difference between the two..is Judo uses more strength and sacrifice, and ninjutsu uses more balance braking...in short it takes less effort to throw someone using ninjutsu throws. I can throw someone a heck of alot heavier than me with ninjutsu techniques. The other thing is you dont rely on a gi for ninjutsu throws.
     
  4. Kave

    Kave Lunatic

    One Kiwi to another, have you done both? I have never trained in Ninjutsu but I have done a bit Judo and there is a huge emphasis on balance breaking (kuzushi) in Judo.

    I have thrown people considerably larger than me with judo throws (as well as with wrestling throws). In my opinion, through necessity all grappling arts have a focus on how to break your opponents balance. I would be hesitant to say one art focuses on it more than another, although clearly arts with a ground focus tend to concentrate on the subtleties of breaking the balance of opponents who may not be standing (setting up sweeps etc.), whereas arts like Judo have a heavier focus on breaking the balance of a standing opponent.
     
  5. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

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  6. NZ Ninja

    NZ Ninja Live wire.

    Kai ora :)

    Judo was the first martial art I ever did :)..because of it I love throwing. Not knocking judo..just giving what I feel is the difference between the two arts. Judo to me was more strength orientated. Yes they work on breaking balance//but its done more through strength..a Judo guy would have a hell of a time against another who did say tai chi for instance. Tai chi also has alot of throws and works from an unbalanced state as much as a balanced one. Lets look at other difference between ninjutsu and judo..In judo we threw eachother onto mats..so you could have sloppy break falls..it wasnt going to hurt..in ninjutsu..we threw eachother onto a wooden floor..your break falls had to be very good..yes it still hurts like a last minute 30 page historiography, ninjutsu has a way of throwing that dosnt allow break falling as well...break limbs on the way to the ground etc and like judo the goal is to throw the person on their head......End of the day, for what its worth..if you get thrown properly with a judo or ninjutsu or tai chi throw..you wont be walking away.

    You Nth or Sth Island?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2014
  7. Kave

    Kave Lunatic

    North Island (Auckland). Recommend any good ninjutsu dojos I could check out to see the difference in styles?
     
  8. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Not going to comment on the ninjutsu v judo part of your argument but as someone with 10 years chinese martial arts, and aboput 6 in tai chi I can tell you exactly what happens when a judo guy meets a tai chi guy, said tai chi guy goes for a ride without even knowing how he was set up

    I can also tell you from experience that doing sloppy breakfalls on mats does get you hurt, ripped my shoulder and had a stinger due to this
    What I will say is there are plenty of clips ogf judo guys throwing people fully resisting them over and over, in competition and in sparring, not so many clips of ninjutsu guys doing the same, its easy to off balance and throw with minimal effort when your opponent is letting you
     
  9. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    The Wu T'ai Chi family practices Judo.Because a family member got bested by a Judoka years ago. This should tell us something.

    TC works well against other boxers,but against a system which is pretty exclusively devoted to balance attacks,grappling and throws it just doesn't have the broad spectrum of techniques/practices in this field to hold its own.Unless he's vastly more skilled than the Judoka the TC guy better hope for a quick KO or knee break if he expects to walk away.

    What do you mean TC "works from an unbalanced state"? Being out of balance is considered a critical error-and some of the stuff just won't work.
     
  10. NZ Ninja

    NZ Ninja Live wire.

    Only speaking from my own experience...others experience's may and will vary. I learnt Yang style Tai chi from a Dio master's student who had many years experience in tai chi. I have seen a Tai chi practitioner beat a black belt judo guy...no the judo wasnt crap he was damn good...he just made a mistake of thinking he had won before it had begun. To be honest it wasnt a throw as such, more a leg sweep into the throw...He did comment how hard it was to off balance the tai chi guy...and when he did get him off balance he couldnt complete his technique as the tai chi guy recovered every time, the judo guy had to pull out of his technique as he was being set up every time he unbalanced the tai chi fellow...every dog has his day. All i can say about tai chi not covering or including throws is...your not learning tai chi then..it is a grappling art also :).

    All the best.
     
  11. NZ Ninja

    NZ Ninja Live wire.


    Well i could tell you but then id have to..... From what i was taught..not training from an unbalanced state is a critical error.

    All the best.
     
  12. NZ Ninja

    NZ Ninja Live wire.

    Hamilton here so we close :). I havent trained Ninjutsu for awhile..well not in a dojo anyway. Work takes alot of my time and gives me training as well lol. Im a security guard. Any dojo with links to Maii Hoshi Dojo's (hope I spelled that right) or Academyl of Combat will give you some things to think about though :). I think they are heavy into BJJ now as well.

    All the best.
     
  13. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Well,I figured you were saying something which probably made sense but the sense wasn't elucidated.One gets off balanced or is seeking balance all the time so one is then training in that unbalanced state,but I didn't think you meant something so obvious.

    I'd hate for you to have to do that to me but I suppose we could just trade secrets.Then you wouldn't have to.Not here tho'....lets meet on the corner in an hour.

    Pardon my ignorance but is Dio a person's name and/or a particular Yang line?

    It's not a grappling system "also". Like many CMAs it contains grappling,throws,etc.So does Okinawan GoJu but I wouldn't say it was "a grappling system also", just employs them more than some other striking systems.

    Nice to read about the TC/Judo match.Good show of why mastery of balance and balance attacks is prized among so many systems.
     
  14. dormindo

    dormindo Active Member Supporter

    NZ Ninja, masked swearing is not allowed on this site (re: your post #126).
     

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