Have you even been dissatisfied with the outcome of a grading?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Latikos, Dec 4, 2016.

  1. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Yesterday, we had grading day at our dojo.
    From the youngest (two 4 year olds) to the adults, we had a few tests over all of our four disciplines.

    Admittedly, one of the four year olds shouldn't have passed, but according to the people who held grading: "It's okay for white-yellow, but yellow will need a loooooot of time".
    Some of the kids were really good; but that's only a sidenote.


    Yesterday made me wonder a thing or two though (Kids aside - especially the little ones, who are just proud and happy):
    Did it ever happen to you people, that you passed your grading, maybe even with a comment of the "That was a (very) good grading, you showed!", that you were just plain dissatisfied and/ or even disappointed in your grading-outcome?
     
  2. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    I think you should always feel a little like you didn't deserve to pass the grading and if you go into it super confident, I think you waited too long before grading.

    My reason for this: I think that feeling of unease you get when you put on that new belt does more to accelerate your training than anything else. No one wants to be the Blue/Green/Purple belt who doesn't perform at that level and I think that people turn it up to 11 to justify their new grade.
     
  3. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    ^^^^THIS

    My very German grandfather told me when I was young that, "If it's not done right, it's not done yet."

    No matter how confident or relaxed I've ever felt going into a grading or even other pressured scenarios like self defence or fights I'm never fully satisfied. I might say to myself, "That was good, I passed, I did everything I needed to do to the standard I needed to do it" but there's always something I can find to work on. I think that's good. Complacency is the enemy of mastery.

    I think it gets more difficult on the other end when you become a teacher and you have to have a level of tolerance within which people get a pass. I have to quiet the critic in the back of my head which wants to nitpick everything and pair it down to the important things and the things which are in or out of that defined tolerance and the broad strokes people need to keep focusing on. It's good to be more harsh and detailed with yourself than with your students in that regard.
     
  4. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    I've failed 2 gradings, I wasn't happy but understood when the issues were pointed out. I corrected them and passed the next time.
     
  5. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I think that residual feelings of how you perceived people of that grade when you first started can affect this too. You don't feel as skilled as they appeared to you when you sucked.
     
  6. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Thanks for the answers so far! I really appreciate them and hope to come back to more tonight.


    At topic: I had three gradings that day: Karate and ATK (both 4. Kyu) and Kickboxing (5.Kyu).
    I passed all of them.
    So I should at least be a little happy, right?
    Problem is - I'm not.

    Here comes the longer part, for people who are chronically bored.

    Nothing really important, so it can be skipped.

    First grading was ATK.
    I had a mistake in the "kata", but only in the end, which isn't relevant yet.
    ATK has a very inflexible program after which it gets tested; they really tell you how to move and what to do (yes, that part is meh; everyone agrees there).
    I totally screwed up one technique; I went out of reflex into a complete different technique (from my JJ gradings); and to make it worse: Midway I switched techniques to get back to what I was supposed to show.
    Only made my hands move from chii and upper head to the sides, switch from neckcrank to move the head back on the ears - but it was just plain wrong and I made it worse, by "correcting" it midway.

    Later on I lost my footage and at least two more techniques were just plain badly done.
    The curricullum to orange only wants 17 techniques, so... yeah.


    Karate: The Kihon-related stuff was okay. Not good, but okay.
    Kata: I started the second one off wrong, but was allowed to start again.
    During the third one I had blackout and only managed to keep going, because my teacher/guy who took the test wispered "Mae Geri".
    Due to that blackout I was so wrecked that I also missed one of three kiai.

    The SD-part was bad as well.
    Once I did a different technique, when attacked with left, then I did when attacked right - I was supposed to show the same stuff from both sides.

    I have to admit though: I was dumb as a post and neglected the left side, because I didn't have to show it for yellow.
    So totally my fault, that isn't wasn't good - but doesn't make things better, obviously.

    Ukemi in both wasn't up to what I am expecting from myself either.


    Kickboxing: My teacher has had the chance to disqualify me from it, because my first sentence was: "That's not part of the grading" when he wanted to see shadow boxing.
    I was surprised he didn't, to be honest.
    Later he told me, that was my "diligence-point", because I'm always there and do so much - during training and for the club in general.
    Lucky me.

    I hate shadow boxing, because I just can't do it for the life for me.

    He also changed a lot of the program of how it was supposed to go - my tic-disorder went up high and I was so stressed, it wasn't even fun anymore.

    But in all honesty, even if I hate to admit it: I think it was enough for a yellow belt.
    For everything above it, I'm not sure, but for yellow it was at least "okay", if nothing more.
    I need to get quicker, was the most important feedback.
    And that kicks my butt, if I ever dare to discuss again, during a grading (more then fair a point! If I would have done it for my ATK grading, they would have stopped the grading and I would have gotten the rebuke of my life!)


    For people with a life: I screwed up so much, I really was expecting to fail at least ATK.
    I'm absolute unsatisfied.
    My teacher said, now, that it will get darker (belt-wise) I won't ever do three gradings on one day again (no kidding :rolleyes: Even I knew that way before :D ), but also that from the people he teaches at the moment, I'm nearly the only he can see doing a Dan at one day (which is more frightening then encouraging), but I'm still annoyed - and it's been nearly two days now.


    As to going into gradings easily: I doubt I will ever do that, so about that I'm not concerned so far.
    Even when I was Uke Saturday for a yellow-belt grading I was nervous :D

    I was rather proud though, that my tic-disorder didn't really kick in until the last grading, where everything was changed.
    I was nervous as hell, I sweated like a pig and during Karate more then ATK the other tic did make its way - but not as bad as I feared.
    Given that that was one of the reasons I did those gradings (learning how to minimize them and not getting totally wrecked due to test anxiety), I could look at this from a favourable perspective.


    PS: Sorry for any mistakes, I don't have time to read it for correction, or I show up to late to practice.
    Will do that later.
     
  7. Nachi

    Nachi Valued Member Supporter

    I can sort of understand why you feel down. I remember my first grading when I skipped the first grade and went straight for a yellow belt (as most adults do). But I underestimated the grading and didn't do as well as I'd like and felt really bad about it. But, and I think it's the same for you, it pushed me to try harder and take the next grading more seriously :)
    I agree with what's been said, that it is also a good think your ego doesn't sore up high in the clouds now :) That would only serve to make you better next time. You should be happy you passed even when you had three gradings in a day (my God, that would be the end of me!), even passed all of them and even did better with your trouble than you thought! Isn't that just great? :)

    I also think you are not the only one to get nervous and screw techniques during a grading. It happened to me and I saw it happen to several other people in my club. And I think the teachers may count on that. They should know how good you are normally and what was done wrong because of the stress. Not that it makes the mistake any lighter, but they should now you can do that stuff right :)
    Cheer up, I would think you did great. And congraulations! :)
     
  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    If the person taking the grading is your regular teacher, I think they will often allow more slack during the grading itself. If they've seen you perform a kata a hundred times with no problem, they'll be reluctant to fail you for screwing it up once under the pressure of a grading.
     
  9. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I have had tests all along the spectrum.

    My last TCC test was a big one. In front of our school founder and our Grandmaster, who comes into town twice a year for high level tests. I feel I under-performed. I let the anxiety of being in front of them get to me, despite my instructor talking to me many times about not letting that happen. I passed, but I didn't have a great test.

    That was almost two years ago and it still bugs me. My Sifu told me that tests are a learning opportunity and to learn and move on. But I feel like I didn't show all I am capable of, and all that my instructor taught me. And that is what bugs me. I know I am capable of better than I showed and have been taught.

    I did learn a lot from it. My CLF test before that was -well - I did really great. My Sifu said things that instructors and students were talking about for a long time afterwards. It was one of my proudest moments ever, when Tai Sifu said the things he did at my sash presentation.

    So now I compare the two. I know the mindset and feeling I had in my CLF test and what I think I was lacking in my TCC test. My next CLF test is for black sash, and I learned from my last TCC test a lot about where I need to be mentally for this test.

    What really bugs me is that there are no higher ranks for TCC in my school right now. They are revising the curriculum to change that. To make degrees after Senior Black like they have for CLF. Funny thing is, before my test, I had no interest in going higher. But now, when they go through with this, I want to test again. To redeem myself, so to speak.

    Thing is, when I am not down on myself. I do think I am comparable to others of my rank at my school. I know I have learned a ton and understand the principles of TCC very well.

    Other times, I suffer from what is called imposter syndrome. And I don't feel comfortable wearing my sash. But I think, for me, part of my MA journey is about learning confidence. I am very hard on myself. In general, not just MA's.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
  10. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That's the term I was looking for!
     
  11. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I think this is fairly common.

    I've had days when I wonder what I'll teach in class and others when I can go for hours on the tiniest detail.

    Students often don't realise how far they've come.

    They'll leave class thinking they've had a stinker, yet miss the other students saying how well their jab is coming along, or how difficult they are to spar.

    I was talking to John Titchen last week and said I'd like to re-shoot every video I've ever posted here because to me they now look awful.

    Hopefully that's a sign of my own progression.

    I suggest shooting a video for your own collection and do the same in 6 months to see how far you've come.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2016
  12. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    My Sifu is like that. I talk about how i posted and old clip here and he is like "ah that was so long ago, I could do so much better now. That wasn't very good." And I am looking at this clip showing incredible skill.

    Yes, my instructor recommends taping yourself. As does our Sifu and other instructors. for just the very reasons you mention. But I don't have the means. I have no smart phone and no video camera.
     
  13. Anth

    Anth Daft. Supporter

    I'm what, six years on, from my last karate grading for nidan and though I passed I'm still not happy with my performance. To this day reckon I only passed because it could have been I believe the first nidan fail in the club's history. Kata was rubbish, three-steps were let down by being tought something wrong, self defence was terrible and ended with me joining an aikido club. I probably wasn't given enough time with a higher grade to work on my own grading prep with having to take other groups myself and I don't think I was adult enough to ask for the time even though I was in my twenties. Looking back, I was probably starting to get bored of karate at the time too (I wasn't being pushed hard enough by my instructors or by myself) so my mind wasn't totally in it. I definitely deserved to fail and should have.

    It was only when I took up aikido that I figured out that it's better to be a good slightly lower grade than a poor higher grade and it's that logic that I used going through the aikido gradings. I certainly got lucky in my last two (for third and second kyu) in that there were odd numbers grading and the examiners forgot to get me to uke as I roll like a 50p piece (ie corner, corner, flat on face) but from the overall gradings I'm happy that I was properly prepared and confident without being arrogant.

    I'm hoping to get back into some form of martial arts next year and I'll certainly be keeping my aikido grading mindset rather than the karate one (if the art does have gradings).
     
  14. StooXex

    StooXex Valued Member

    I've never been truly convinced I did everything right on any grading I've had. I've always come away thinking "I did this/that/the other wrong, what were they looking at"

    On the other hand, being on the other side of the table, as it were, I've seen kids do techniques so much better in the classes than they did at gradings.
     
  15. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    I did take the gradings serious!
    Otherwise my teachers wouldn't even have allowed me to take the grading or would have let me fail without remorse.

    As it is, I'm actually concerned to go to the next session, wearing the new belt.

    It were "only" gradings for low grades, otherwise I wouldn't have done it.

    Yesterday I learned, that my teacher and basically everyone was impressed by one technique during my Karate-grading: I did a twisted triangle (hope, that's the right term) on the ground.
    I only remembered *everyone* laughing at that moment, but apparently that was because everyone looked at one of my JJ-teachers, because they knew that had to have come from him.

    To have heard that, that the technique left some impression - that was actually nice.

    Aside from that, I'm still only okay, with the SD-part from kickboxing-grading lol

    Problem is, they are supposed to let you pass or fail for what you show during the grading, in my opinion.
    So even if I were to do an mega-awesome kata during training (which I would never do :D), when I screw it up during the grading, that's not supposed to help me.

    Thanks you very much.


    My teachers are very detail loving as well.
    That's part of what I really, really appreciate it.
    That and teaching, when you get better and better, principles just as well as techniques, so you don't only copy.

    Just mentioning that, as some sort of feedback, that there are people who appreciate details :eek:

    Btw: Was that meant with "imposter-syndrom" earlier?
    When it's not done, but you only copy?

    That might be true.

    And that gives me nightmares :D


    I can't say that's a problem for me, but it's an interesting thought for others!
    I could have easily said: "I'm not ready yet", but I actually felt well prepared (until a day before, but that's test anxiety setting in).

    Again I can talk for myself, obviously, but I do get pushed a lot actually, and I'm grateful for that, because I work better like this.
    I also know, that my teachers have higher standards for me, than for some of the others.
    I feel honored by that, even though that's really difficult at times and it means I get rebuked easier :eek: :D

    Why I mention that: Not, so I can show how great I am (I'm not), but because maybe I should keep that in mind!
    They couldn't even afford it to let me pass, if I didn't do good enough :thinking:

    I looked at it like that from the beginning.
    Mainly because I don't want to make my teachers look bad on seminars, because they graded me.
    So far it went great like that, to be honest.

    That description made me laugh, thank you very much :)
    Didn't happen a lot that last days.

    Good luck getting back into it! :)
     
  16. gapjumper

    gapjumper Intentionally left blank

    But is it imposter syndrome, or something else pretending to be imposter syndrome?


    :hat:
     
  17. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    This explains it better than I can. Understanding this has really helped me work on overcoming these feelings.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impostor_syndrome
     
  18. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    These two for me.
     
  19. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    My CLF instructor informed me last night we need to be thinking of a test date goal. She told me she is thinking this time next year I should be testing.

    This is by no means set in stone. But it means she is getting serious about getting me there soon. And yes, for a black sash, a year feels like soon - too soon.

    I am ashamed to admit that after the lesson didn't react to the news all that well. You would think I would be happy, but all those feelings of not feeling close to good enough to test came rushing in. I whined/ vented playfully, but with some serious feelings behind it to some fellow students I am close to.

    I am comfortable where I am at, and all too happy to nit pick details forever and stay comfortably where I am. And I know that is the point of her pushing me to think of testing with a goal date- to not let me rest comfortably. But to push myself.

    A lot of what we are talking about here was a factor in my feelings last night. Even though my last CLF test was great, the not so great TCC test feelings came back.

    I am going to have to face these and overcome them.

    The only comfort is that I trust my instructor completely. She has more experience in getting people to that level than any other instructor at my location- except Tai Sifu of course.
     
  20. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Says who? The colour of the piece of cloth around your waist is supposed to indicate your relative skill level, not how well you cope with exam pressure. Gradings exist out of convenience and only really make sense if you are being graded by someone who doesn't watch you train week in, week out.

    If the grading calls for you to know a kata, why does it matter if you demonstrate that knowledge in a normal class or in a grading, so long as you demonstrate it?

    Exams are almost always a poor method of assessing knowledge.
     

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