How about we bonsai, why not?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by philosoraptor, May 26, 2013.

  1. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Have you ever looked at a big tree and thought "Boy I wish this was smaller." Well then today's your lucky day! Bonsai is essentially scale modeling with a living tree - you're trying to create the impression of a vast, wizened old titan of the forest in an itty bitty pot.

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    If you're like me, your first exposure to bonsai was probably from the karate kid. Maybe if you're a freaky little weirdo you went out and bought a 'bonsai' from your local garden center, although these days they seem to crop up around malls, bookstores, everywhere.

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    In general, specimens like this are not desirable. They are overpriced, unhealthy, uninteresting and they never pay their full share of the bill. If you start with material like this it will take an absolute truck load of time to get it looking nice. There's ways to do it, but I'm impatient.

    One misconception that people have about bonsai is that they are grown from seed in their pots into what we see today. Not so! Most good bonsai stock is either field grown for the purpose, or acquired from nursery stock grown for a different purpose.

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    Field grown trident maple.

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    Nursery stock juniper to bonsai.

    Either option is a good way to get started with bonsai. Field grown trees are commonly much more expensive, as someone has been monitoring their progress for several years commonly. Often times they will have a good root base that is already small enough for a bonsai pot, an evenly tapered trunk and good primary branching. Field growing trees is an art unto itself, so you'll pay for the artist's expertise, but in general it's well worth it.

    Nursery stock is cheap as chips. You can go find a 5 gallon juniper for $15 if you live near me. Unfortunately, you're on your own as far as designing the tree goes. First make sure the tree is healthy, then look at design elements. Your priority with design is to let nature do most of the work for you - trunks and roots take the longest to develop, so look at those first. You want a tapered trunk with no unsightly bulges in its length, and a root base that fans out evenly.

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    This is an awesome rootbase that you will not find developing naturally, but you get the idea.

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    This is probably what you'll start with, but would still be a good buy.

    In terms of what species to buy, that's up to you and your local climate. Most bonsai are outdoor trees, and so you will be limited by what your area can sustain. I live in the swampy south, and for me, ficus, japanese maple and black pine all grow very well. Next, I'll discuss bonsai tools and how to actually style your tree! Until then, here's some pictures of my trees and my garden.

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    Ghetto bonsai bench I threw together this summer.

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    First ficus forest I made two years ago from nursery stock. Although the trees are individually uninteresting, put enough of them together and they start to look nice.

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    Field grown japanese maple.

    Please chime in and show off your trees if you're a fellow bonsai-ist!
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  2. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Nice. I have kept Bonsai in the past, so know how much work they take.

    You have some nice stuff there.
     
  3. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I've had a juniper growing in the garden for several years. I really should dig it up and get to work on it.

    I'd love to really cut it back, jin some of the branches and see what's underneath.
     
  4. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    Beautiful pics, thanks!
     
  5. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    Wow! Thanks for posting. Banzai is a fascinating art to me. And your trees look great. Maybe one of these days I'll start on a garden of my own.
     
  6. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Many years later, many more trees and a better bench :]

    I'm getting ready to do another study session with my favorite bonsai artist. I'm so excited I've literally been having dreams about playing with my trees.

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    Bench might be getting a bit crowded. Oh well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
  7. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    The art of the minature has no better showcase than the grande scale of nature infinitesimally displayed...

    :thinking: :confused:

    Right. Anyroad...nice work. Very, very nice. A relative of mine grew those. Started back in the early eighties, at least. Was even invited to Japan to receive an award some many years ago.

    They gave me one. It died. :eek:

    But I'll always be amased at the care and time put into them. Literally like having children. Takes great skill, patience and a bit of good fortune to boot.
     
  8. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Hey thanks! I think… :confused:

    No kidding! If you could find any pictures of his trees, I'd really appreciate viewing them. One of the problems with western bonsai is that it's a timeless art - which sounds better than it is. Little information is available regarding the styles and appreciation of trees that were done in the past; it's easy to think that the bonsai style of today is the bonsai style of yesterday and forever, but in truth it's just as much an artifact of the times as any other contemporary taste.

    Honestly, they're really not that hard to care for, it's just a matter of knowing what to do when. Well, I say that, but then people ask me how to care for them and I start 'sperging out about soil ratios and blah, blah, blah, but the real trick is to start with easy species (like maples, hornbeam and chinese elm) and then… branch out :D

    Use primarily inorganic soil, fertilize and water heavily.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
  9. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    I'd be interested in giant Bonsai, if there was such a thing. Like growing a fifty-foot fuchsia with flowers as big as a man, or something like that. That would be fun.
     
  10. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Ja...He did this thing with them, I don't know the term - I call it "splicing", where one grafts parts of one species onto another and it takes its own from there. Does that sound right? Seems a bit Frankensteinish, lol, but I believe that's what the nature of it was.

    I might a photograph - maybe not, then. I don't keep up with that end of the 'family' - them being and all, very much so, the Catholics. I've to go through certain "channels" very discretely if I want to find out anything, else its a nest o wet hornets, lol.

    Wish I'd more specifics to give you. Im told he was considered quite learned when it came to bonsai's, the science of it.


    Nahh, its more'n that, you know! It seems easy for you 'cause you've a talent or a bent for it.
     
  11. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    Seems Johnno's heading in the opposite direction.

    Lol...Johnno's the ANTIBONSAIST - careful o the cloven hoof :p
     
  12. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    There actually is! I'll look up pictures later, but the Vietnamese are particularly known for this style. Although the Japanese put a cap on what a 'bonsai' is, there are plenty of large trees that are groomed for display in the same manner.

    I confess, I have some sympathy for large trees. Most of mine are over 2 feet tall and I have a soft spot in my heart for trees that are over 3 feet tall.

    Yeah there's a lot of great grafted trees, particularly in the US! For whatever reason, Americans feel a bit inferior about their native trees, and commonly graft 'shimpaku' juniper foliage to 'rocky mountain' juniper stock. I have a tree that only barely recovered from such treatment. Ponderosa pine are grafted with black pine foliage, etc., etc. I think it's a bad practice, but, with that said, I've got at least 3 grafted trees, including a sexy japanese maple, nice white pine and beautiful big ficus.

    If you don't mind PM'ing me his name, I'd be happy to investigate it myself. Seriously, I'm very curious. I'm still a newb when it comes to this stuff.

    Lies, every bonsai artist leaves a trail of dead trees in his or her wake. Trust me, you could totally take care of a ficus without even thinking about it. Black pine, well, maybe not, but ficus sure.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
  13. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    So, it is Frankensteinian, what he did, then ? :happy: ::belltoller's darker side gloats ... just a bit::

    hmmmmm First...you mind me asking where you from - originally? Not related by birth, marriage, business dealings, friendship, kinship or servitude (voluntary or otherwise) to any republican-leaning clans in Ulster or any families whose name begins with W. in County Antrium, County Down or Galway in the Republic propa, are you? :eek:

    just kiddin, of course.

    Its not a distant relative; a bit close to the bone, you see. I've to've a sit down on that.

    In the meantime, I'll see if I can't locate a photo - I know I took one of the bonsai I was given...its just been a good 25 years or more since I last saw it.

    Anyroads...
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I know this will sound weird, but...

    ...do you ever feel like it's a bit cruel to the trees?

    Thinking back to the thread recently where we were talking about alien contact; I have images of a plant-based, advanced alien culture coming to earth and vaporising you for crimes against their kin :p
     
  15. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Yeah, I mean… I guess? I don't know, grafting is pretty common in bonsai.

    No worries, I understand.
     
  16. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I feed the little jerks, I water them daily, I repot them, I kill any pest that comes near them, sometimes with the blades of my shears (snikt, snakt) sometimes with my fingers, blah blah blah. These guys are well cared for :]

    With that said, I view myself as kind of being a plant based BDSM fetishist. It's not cruel, they just need discipline. And I'd like it to be said that not one of them has ever said the safe word.
     
  17. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    It's not unique to bonsai, either. Grafting is used in lots of ways. I believe that all hybrid tea roses are grafted onto a common rose rootstock, for example.

    I know that bonsai can seem a little bit 'Frankensteiny', but I suspect that the vast majority of plants that we commonly grow have been changed to some degree or other by human intervention, usually by selective breeding. An awful lot of commonly grown plants are hybrids, because we don't find the natural form of the plants interesting or pretty enough!
     
  18. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Hah. I was thinking the same. Kinda reminds me of foot binding....botanical foot binding.

    You cruel bugger, Philo.

    (Beautiful trees! - most impressed).
     
  19. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    Oh you haven't seen them when I get really mean. :D

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    Ugly now, but it gives a bit of hint at the process. The wire bends branches into sculpted places, defoliation of the leaves causes the plant to put out fresh sprouts with more twigginess and smaller leaves and the sacrificial branches are allowed to grow out, thickening the branches, until they're chopped back.

    Thanks for the kind words!
     
  20. belltoller

    belltoller OffTopic MonstreOrdinaire Supporter

    The moment I read this -


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