Who is more violent? British or American

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Connovar, Jan 12, 2013.

  1. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ooa98FHuaU0"]Choose Your Own Crime Stats - YouTube[/ame]



    Check out the center part of this video pertaining to stats on violent crime comparing US violent crime vs England and Wales violent crime. Is it true. Is due to reporting variations, or due differences in crime reporting or crime classification etc.

    Lets keep this discussion to violent crime , other aspects have been or can be discussed elsewhere
     
  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Top comment on that video:

    "The definitions for "violent crime" are very different in the US and Britain, and the methodologies of the two statistics he cites are also different.

    The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a violent crime as one of four specific offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

    The British definition includes all crimes against the person, including simple assaults, all robberies, and all sexual offenses."


    Thoughts?

    I do agree with his assesment about poverty, job creation and education.
     
  3. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    What could possibly go wrong with this thread?
     
  4. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    The FBI’s Uniform Crime Reports defines a violent crime as one of four specific offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault.

    The England/Wales definition of violent crime covers a wide range of offences, from minor assaults such as pushing and shoving that result in no physical harm through to serious incidents of wounding and murder. It also includes all sexual offences.

    I hope that explains why the England/Wales violent crime rate seems so much higher than the FBI's US one.


    Violent Crime is at its lowest here in England and Wales since the recording process started in 1981.
     
  5. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

    Do you have a citable reference for that. Thanks.
     
  6. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Might be wrong, but can't swearing in public be classified a violent crime in the UK?

    I remember reading something about how Senior Police officers direct officers to make specific arrests for different offences depending on what the areas crime stats look like.

    So if you're drunk and swearing in public, you can be arrested for a section 5 public order offence, which is a violent crime, or you could be arrested for being drunk and disorderly, which is not
     
  7. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Crime in England and Wales, Year Ending June 2012 (this has replaced the BCS):
    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime...england-and-wales--year-ending-june-2012.html
    FBI Violent Crime:
    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/violent-crime
     
  8. Ben Gash CLF

    Ben Gash CLF Valued Member

    The other issue with the FBI stats is that in an incident where multiple offences occurred only the most serious one is counted.
     
  9. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    FBI:
    There is a clear difference here between the two sources as only aggravated assault, not assault, is listed as a violent crime. I've attached the total crime stats for England and Wales for roughly the same period.
     

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  10. Moi

    Moi Warriors live forever x

    I'm going to blame the French
     
  11. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

    es this indeed make a difference in violent crime rates. Its comparing apples and oranges o to speak.

    On a side note of 50% reduction in violent crime in US, why are England and Wales not showing much change since 1991.It appears you had a large increase in late 90's are now getting down to 1991 levels.

    http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/public.../crime-research/hosb1011/hosb1011?view=Binary

    Unfortunately you have to go to page 40 of the summary table but in essence it shows violent crime at 2100 approx with some peaking in the area of 4000 and then down to 2200 for 2011. What has US done during this time done to decrease its violent crime 50% during the 20 year period..
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2013
  12. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I don't know, there's been a lot of change since '91.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Again, I think the different meanings of 'violent crime' obfuscate the data. Overall violent crime here is down to the level of the early 80s. Gun and knife crime have been reduced considerably. Sexual crime has risen though.
     
  14. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

    Thanks for the graph but it honestly only seems to show a significant rise and then drop to baseline with household acquisitive?? (burglary)/ Violent crime isnt changed much at all.

    Since then you have added all those cameras for security and tightened gun restictions etc without much benefit if you look at the numbers.
     
  15. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    The government changed in 1997 and they made sweeping changes to the way Police performance was assessed - part of that involved the way statistics were recorded.
     
  16. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    Also - the late 80's weren't a nice time to be English.
     
  17. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

     
  18. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    Not so. Violent part of violent crime has been falling. You need to look at the tables specific to gun crime and knife crime plus the proportion of offences involving weapons. I've been downloading these stats and lecturing on their contents for almost a decade. It is very important to remember that the England/Wales crime stats consider a threat or a push/shove as a violent crime and that sort of behaviour isn't going to decrease much. By comparison the FBI stats do not consider assault as a violent crime, only aggravated assault! If you look at the gun/knife crime decrease here you'll see a decrease similar to the violent crime decrease in the USA.
     
  19. Connovar

    Connovar Banned Banned

    I was looking at 1991 and forward. Violent crime rose and descended still over to slightly above 1991 levels. Not big win here. You have cameras watching you all over the place. You have restrictions on owning and carrying items such as Katanas and nunchakus. etc. You have restricted fireams ownership even more and what have you gained. A great loss of freedom with negligible results it would seem.
     
  20. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    You'll notice from the table I provided above that even deaths caused by drunk driving are considered violent crime here.
     

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