Would you train such a person?

Actually to be honest and quite a bit more open than I wanted to be...I suffer from bipolar and PTSD and the martial arts help me stay focused. I am a disabled American veteran who does not have a criminal background at all.

I was asking for myself but thanks to all the negativity I had to open up and say those things i didn't feel comfy telling this soon...

but oh well now...there it is...

 

I wrote the post bellow before seeing the post above.


It is very easy to read extra things into a post. For many people the original post “Would you train such a person" has a strong implication of prejudice. However this is only an implication. This perceived prejudice may only exist in the mind of the reader not in the writer. I will do my best to simply reply to the question.

"would I teach such a person? " Yes.

To explain why the answer is yes might be helpful.

Any person walking in the training hall could have past or current drug or alcohol dependence, they may have emotional, behavioral challenges around discipline, or violence, or they could have a past or current diagnosis of mental illness. People are individuals not case histories or diagnosis. I would not require anyone to declare a mental illness before training any more than I would require them to declare other personal details. I would treat all people equally.

As part of the teaching process I do make judgments about students. These are based on observing their behavior. If I feel that a student’s behavior is not appropriate for any reason I talk to them. Based on that discussion I may change the way I teach to accommodate the student, I might alter the way I teach to accommodate any misgivings I have about the student, I may advise the student that they have to change their behavior or I may instruct the student that they are no longer welcome to train.

Over the years of training and teaching only a small percentage of people have behavior that caused concern. The majority of this small percentage were “ordinary people” who also happened to be, for want of a better word, floccinaucinihilipilification.

Over the years of training and teaching I have encountered individuals with mental health problems. Of these people the great majority caused no worries, a small percentage had "ordinary" behavior that caused concern (having a mental health problem does not preclude a person from being a masked profanity removed in addition). But a handful of people have shown behavior linked to their mental health that gave me concern as to whether they might pose a threat to themselves during the class, others during the class, or that they might miss-use what they learn in class on the wider public.

If I am concerned about anyone, for whatever reason, and I feel they might pose a threat to themselves during the class or others in the class, or that they might miss-use what they learn in class on the wider public. I am obliged to make the decision as to whether or not to teach them.

 

Ah, the companies don't want that here.
(Just out of curiousity, which country are you in?)

Here you have a medical insurance (which doesn't seem to want papers like that, because I, or my Mom when I was a kid, never had to sign them) and are insured as well with the clubs, in case you get injured and might keep problems, that keep have you limited keep you from working for the rest of your life or something.

I totally agree with that.

As I said, I told every trainer beforehand (via Email) that I have troubles with people.
With one I got into more details very soon, but others don't no more then: "Lots of people = stress).

But I can also see, why people keep it to themselves, to tell anything regarding mental issues.
Even if you keep the fear to be kicked out of the argument, surprisingly many people give you weird glances, once they here "psychology problems".

Which is fair enough, if I don't tell you something.

Interestingly enough that depends, but I do get you point
And see above: If I decide not to tell someone, I am the person that has to handle that; problem is mine then.
(Which could be hellishly difficult, if the problem is something more serious then my problem!)

In my clubs I don't even come to 200€ I used poor wording there: I meant they want to know the bank account, because in most cases the schools get the okay for direct devit (at least my dictionary says, that's the word. They are allowed to "take" the money from your account).
One doesn't and I usually am a bit late with paying them

The okay for the pictures is more of a formality, because the same papers are used for kids as well, and some parents don't want that.

Aside from that, they want the same information as you stated, minus the medical clearance.


EDIT:

And yet you would be willing to give that kind of information to other teachers/ instructors/ what you want to call them, in case they call you, when it's about someone else?
I don't get it.

EDIT 2: When you wrote, you'd keep in touch with the doctors, that sounded to me, as if you wanted to be kept updated as well. Might have been a misunderstanding.

 

Yeah, sorry...I've been trying to follow on here on and off, writing, rewriting - one of my children suffers from juvenile onset Bipolar or some hybrid of OCD/Anxiety/ADHD - whatever it is - and he's getting full on the manic side of it...which means no sleep for either of us - some on the board here already know how it goes.

Well, glad you "came clean" lol. I was gonna tell you that the active group on the forum here are by and large quite accomplished martial artists, gym-owners of many years, pro and semi pro fighters, SD consultants, etc - and many of them have known each other for quite some time - personally.

When one considers everything, I have to say I thought them unusually tolerant and reserved in their dealings with you.

'Negativity'? Well, think about what would happen if you became infatuated with the biker-culture, for example, to the point you began dressing like one, grew a beard down to the floor, etc., then one day you inadvertently (or by full knowledge) walked into a bone-fide, interpo-monitored, gun-carrying, dru-smugglin biker-bar one night and started a conversation with a group of them - talking about the times? lol.

'Negativity' would take on a whole new meaning, wouldn't it?

It is what it is.

Speakin of which,

My son, as I mentioned, has bipolar, martial arts helped him focus but he's not a gi, sailor or Marine suffering as a result of his service.

He was just born that way.

His condition wouldn't be any more ennobled had he been a vet, nor is it any less tragic because he is not.

But he's my greatest hero.

He finally settled down, went to sleep and allowed me to finish this post, on and off for the last several hours.

Now I need to sleep.

 

Honestly you're really misinformed and I know you arent purposely being prejudiced but you are, it's obvious you have some very wrong ideas and stigma towards mental health issues. There is no reason to treat someone who is bipolar or who is schizophrenic differently by assuming that they shouldnt be allowed to learn martial arts. I dont think that you have any experience of what either of these labels means, so you should not be having ideas in your head about what you think they mean, whatever you're thinking about people who have these labels is incorrect and just going to make you prejudiced for having incorrect, damaging/stigmatising stereotypes. There is no reason to think that it'd be wrong or dangerous for someone who is bipolar, schizophrenic, to practice martial arts, or that they are going to go mental and attack people... If anything it would probably be good for them to have a hobby.

 

Even though I'd agree, that he might not have read everything - suffering from something doesn't mean, that you're free from prejudices about the exact same thing.

 

well you are right I should have read the entire thing, but tbh I'd probably say almost the same thing after having read the whole thing, that the OP still probably has wrong and a little prejudiced ideas about mental health even the issues he is facing himself (and some random others he threw in such as schizophrenia...), that there is some stigma there and he shouldnt stigmatise himself either! There is basically no reason to wonder if any of these kinds of people should be banned from learning martial arts, I dont think that thought should even enter the mind.

You should do martial arts, do what you want, dont let people tell you that you cant do things based on them worrying about a stupid incorrect stereotype (e.g. everyone with schizophrenia is norman bates), and dont put yourself down! I think a big part of being mentally healthy is having things in your life to do that you enjoy, having people to interact with, so if you enjoy martial arts I think it would almost certainly be a positive thing.

As for the diagnosis it seems strange you are diagnosed with both PTSD and bipolar, as it seems like all of the symptoms of bipolar could simply be caused by PTSD.. but I dont want to argue with your psychologist they probably had good reasons to diagnose both

 

First off, PTSD isn't classified as a bipolar or Schizophrenia disorder! I have PTSD from my service as a First Responder and I still practice Martial Arts. I can't tell you how big of a help and incredible tool it's been in my recovery. PTSD is an injury, not a disorder!!!!!!

I would train anyone that comes through my door, that proves to me that they are worthy of such training, and can clear a criminal background check. I don't/won't discriminate just because someone has a mental illness and/or PTSD (which again is an injury not a disorder).

To put PTSD in the same category as bipolar or schizophrenia or any other mental health illness/disorder is not only offensive to the thousands of service members of are diagnosed, but also highly misleading.

 

Thanks a lot for not reading this whole thread...I suffer from both ptsd and bipolar so thanks a lot.

I might be compelled to "inform" you that PTSD indeed is a disorder. The acronym stands for "Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder"...Oops, did that say DISORDER???

TBI is the acronym for Traumatic Brain Injury...Oops again, did that say INJURY???

These are two different diagnosis.

And that goes without saying I am a disabled american veteran, or should I say a disabled american former service member of the US Army and National Guard...so yeah...thanks a whole bunch

 

Clearly your attitude makes you unworthy anyways.

Tut, tut.

 

I know what the acronyms mean so please don't insult my knowledge on this issue. PTSD is NOT a disorder, it's an injury where the disorder comes from traumatic events. TBI is a different physical injury, where the brain is actually damaged. I'm a medic, and I've got PTSD, so don't insult my intelligence!!

Check out the DSM-V. PTSD is in it's own category, not with "diagnosis" and not with any schizo or bipolar which btw are two different mental illnesses.

And I read the entire post, and I stand by my remarks!!

 

Yes, we do!! It's a way for us to try to narrow the gap between those who come to actually learn and do good, and those who come in to use it to break laws and abuse people!! It's not uncommon as you think!!

Go to Asia, (China, Korea, Japan) you have to PROVE your worthiness to train with the Masters over there!! So what were doing isn't all that different. Ignorance oi.

 

You're probably more likely to be hurt in martial arts by a reckless training partner without mental health issues, than by somebody suffering from a diagnosed condition.

 

Well then Mr. Medic, if PTSD is NOT a disorder but an injury...what gets injured and why does it seem that you or your source claims that the disorder is part of the traumatic event...and what about the "Post" and the "Stress" parts...if PTSD is an injury...then stress is an injuring thing, right...or am I wrong on that one too???

To tell me that the many psychiatrists that diagnosed me wrong of suffering from PTSD which I acquired during my Army Active Duty service IS an insult to at least one service member...lets not forget my fellow comrades...veteran or active member

And if what Simon says about you is true...then I second his motion to challenge you to show your credentials because I had thought I created my own style and kept answering their questions even when it seemed they were against me I persevered and learned I had not created my own style and that what training i had in anything is most likely not credible due to no credentials but they also dont doubt that what I learned had at least one authentic technique even if that technique is simply to get hit. You claim to be an instructor of something you created and teach at a class school to a group of people. Geez man, are things really that bad for you...I mean come on...I didn't go that extreme though it was just as bad.

So I second Simons motion to challenge you to show or link to your credentials.

 

Actually that kind of background check doesn't give as much security as some might think.

I mean: You clear it.
Fine.
Then there still two ****ibilities: 1. You never did anything.
2. You just didn't get caught.

Then: You might not clear it.
Again: What, if you have a prior for stealing something or burglary? Doesn't mean you're a violent person.
What, if you have a prior that's actually related to violence but it was like 20 years ago? Obviously it doesn't count for everyone, but some people change, even if they have a massive list of prior convistions (I even know one persoanlly).

So, personally I'm not so sure about this, but also get it for a little part, why some schools do it.
(The same goes for people who work with kids. I actually think, that there need to be other steps taken, then only ask for a paper that says that you never did anything. But that goes totally OT, sorry)

Some KM schools here ask for it. And other schools with modern self-defense systems as well.

But personally I was never asked about it so far.
(But also never went to a KM school).

Not sure what I would do if they were to ask.
Frankly I think it would depend on much I wanted to train at that specific school/ club.
Which again I would only know, once I've been there often enough.