Would you train such a person?

If someone comes to you for training and that person says they have PTSD and Bipolar and they prove they want to learn a martial art for personal enlightenment and development as well as learning and practicing self-discipline and self-respect and to achieve a better and deeper sense of self-confidence.

How about a person who has a multiple personality disorder who doesn't know why she wants to learn or a bad case of schizophrenia that pretty much keeps them institutionalized more than not but wants to learn for the wrong reasons.

Would you train such a person(s)? Why or why not?

If so, what would you require of the individual(s) before you began training them?

If not, please give a best case scenario and a worst case scenario of why you would not train such individuals?

 

I wouldn't. I think they'd get more out of a good yoga class tbh.

 

I'd train anyone who was willing, capable and responsible in class.

Assuming that mentally ill people are violent is wrong and highly offensive.

 

Well I sure wasn't. I think for someone looking for enlightenment and development, they will get more out of a good yoga class than any martial arts class. Just my opinion.

 

I wasn't reading into your reply, but the question is clearly loaded in that direction.

 

I was asking honestly...I didnt mean for the question to be loaded to receive a prescribed response.

Sorry if my wording isn't proper english that an english teacher would pass as excellent. I'm a redneck to the core and proud of it.

please forgive me for being satisfied with my own grammar and vocab.

 

can you elaborate more on this please?

 

If they want to do it, are able to do it, and are able to do it safely with others there's no reason not to.

I trained a guy who has schizophrenic tendencies but wasn't full on schizophrenic. He said it was due to heavy LSD use but that he had trained tai chi before. He ended up not taking direction and correction well no matter how I modified my approach (more on that later). Early on I realized that what he really wanted was not training but connection with other people, an opportunity to exercise agency, and to be seen as an authority. He wanted the connectedness that his mental discontinuity (for lack of a more apt term) was keeping him from.

The biggest impediment to his learning was his disordered thinking. It made it difficult for him to grasp simple concepts without running off on a wild and unrelated mental tangent and almost impossible to him to put in the reps required to instill muscle memory.

Had that not been an impediment for him he was an otherwise pleasant guy and safe training partner who I would have been happy to continue teaching. Ultimately he realized he wasn't getting what he wanted and/or needed here and he left. Hopefully he is doing better now.

I've trained two people with PTSD and it's less of an issue as they become desensitized to training. I saw it have some very positive effects on their mental function.

Bipolar is a tricky animal it can be difficult for them to keep motivated and effective due to the depressive periods and then they go full bore during the manic phases and you sometimes have to reign them in. I've known a few people with this and as long as you can keep them engaged and you can support them through the low phases it CAN be done but it's not easy.

 

Your whole post is an awesome read...I look forward to hearing more

 

I meant in the post but if you'd like an example of the disordered thinking...
Once I was talking about angling off and allowing space to accommodate and he started going off about how you can't obstruct people because [unintelligible leap between concepts]. He then started doing entirely unrelated movements and I could see him visually imagining rivers and waterfalls and such.

This happened a few times.

Once he started relating a concept to sword work so I showed him how it applied to sword techniques and then he got off on another tangent about wrestling somehow.

It didn't seem to matter whether I followed with his leaps in logic and subject matter or stopped them. Pattern interrupts (stopping him from visualizing and thereby keeping him mentally present) tended to work but only briefly. I admit I was out of my depth with how to constructively channel the already present behaviours or successfully impede them. I had much more success with people with PTSD and Bipolar.

 

It should really fall under one question and one question alone, do you think the person seeking your instruction is going to use what you teach them to harm others beyond either regulated competition or self defense? If you honestly believe the answer is yes, refuse them as a student.

 

It seems to be noted that I should point out that schizophrenia is a general term and that there are more specific types such as schizo-effective disorder and paranoid schizophrenia.

While both are schizophrenia, they are 2 total different diagnosis'.

 

i'm mostly with southpaw. if i knew i could do something positive for them without mucking up catastrophically, then i'd be all in favour of teaching them, but without knowing the particulars of each ailment AND more importantly of the person who has it (because i would deal with the person, not the ailment), i cannot be entirely sure that i would be able to make a positive contribution to their mental and physical welfare, so i would have to talk it over with the person in question and decide along with them if my hypothetical class would be a beneficial environment for them.

 

Very well said

 

One of my friends started training kali and he credits it with giving him the focus and outlet that he needed to deal with his PTSD.

 

This is one of the many approaches to training or not training such individuals.

thank you Aaradia

 

I'm still relatively inexperienced at martial arts and, in general, have only been asked to demonstrate specific techniques with my partners. I will break down the technique into its constituent parts and, for as long as we are allowed to practice techniques, will do so and verbally aid as best I can. Of course, with the knowledge that sometimes just running through it a few times is the best teacher. So anyway, several times have been paired with mentally different people. Am probably mentally different myself! I'll help them practice the technique as best I can, then, if free sparring with them, will suggest we practice the technique more. So far, so good?

 

I try to stay away from people with such "abstract" attitude. The reason is simple. I can't pretend that I care about "personal enlightenment".

I only teach those who are willing to

- compete in tournament (for himself), and
- pass on MA knowledge to the future generation (for others).