Less difficult less effective technique or more difficult more effective

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Tom bayley, Oct 3, 2015.

  1. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Would you chose to use a less difficult technique that you have a high chance of getting to work even thought the effect on the opponent is less. Or would you chose a more difficult technique with a higher chance of getting in wrong but a greater effect on the the opponent if you succeed?
     
  2. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Why does a less difficult technique have to be less effective?
     
  3. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If your initial theory was accurate..... In what context?
    In the Practise room, SD, MMA match?
     
  4. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    It doesn't. but in practice I have found that it is easier to put an opponent on the back foot than it is to put them on their back. Others might have a different experience.
     
  5. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Any context that is meaningful to you that you feel might further the discussion.
     
  6. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    A cross isn't that risky, and it knocks out a lot of people.

    You are asking about "high risk high reward" techniques I think. To answer, I would say try it all in practice but basics in a fight, whether competition or real life.
     
  7. Southpaw535

    Southpaw535 Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Until you go to Cagewarriors and they pay you 5 grand to win with a head kick :p

    I agree Chadderz though. The only caveat is that difficulty is a sliding scale. I find most kicks difficult but know people who can whip out spinning kicks off the wall like they're nothing. So what I deem a complicated technique might not be for someone else.
     
  8. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    I consider all "high kick" as high risk technique. If your kicking leg get caught and if your opponent sweeps/hooks your standing leg, since you have no leg left, you will get a hard fall. I prefer "safer technique" than "not so safe technique". I try to avoid all techniques that may cause my head to be punched.

    For example, I believe the Chinese wrestling "single leg" is safer to apply than the western wrestling "single leg" because:

    - You don't need to drop that low to expose your own head.
    - If you can use your right hand to push on your opponent's right shoulder, your opponent's right hand can't punch you.
    - If your opponent tries to punch you with his left hand, you can raise up your right elbow and hide your head next to it (just like the WC Bong Shou) to block that left punch.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TlZeOx7ncU&feature=youtu.be"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TlZeOx7ncU&feature=youtu.be[/ame]
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  9. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Isn't the trick to take something extremely difficult and make it simple or easy for you to accomplish?

    And by difficult, I mean mainly consistency. It may be possible to knock someone out with your right cross, but can you knock people out consistently with it?

    We used to say something to the effect that a someone who has mastered a difficult move can make it look easy, like it took no effort. They could do it in their sleep.
     
  10. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    The parameters of the question are flawed it seems?
     
  11. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Why do you say this?
     
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Fundamental are fundamental.........

    Difficult techniques arnt more effective, their just more likily to fail.
     
  13. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    But a fireman's lift throw completed successfully has on average a much greater effect on an opponent than a jab.
     
  14. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    You can't though just get a fireman's lift throw without a set up and that's what the jab is, a set up.
     
  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    No more effective than a double leg and that's much easier to pull off.

    Easier technique =/= less effective. In fact it's often the opposite.
     
  16. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    I wouldn't say a fireman's lift is that advanced, its not that appropriate in most circumstances, but the movement itself isn't difficult. maybe we should restart with you defining what you mean by more difficult and less difficult.

    I'd say using any attack successfully as a single direct attack is difficult, one that requires an extreme range of motion even more so.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  17. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Really? Respect for you technique - I find it very difficult to do properly.


    I agree with you that words and definitions could do with clarification. I think people have different but equally legitimate understandings of what different words mean.

    By effect on the opponent I am thinking in terms of what the most likely outcome of a technique will be. A punch is simple, it can be effective (as Chadderz points out), but few punches result in a knockout. They do however frequently create the opportunity for further techniques (as Simon points out). So what I am thinking about is chance of success, reward of success, and risk.

    Thinking of a fireman's lift throw. If I attempted one in a fight my chance of success would be very low, the reward of success would be very high. Dropping someone on their head from my shoulder height would win. But the risk of compromising my position if it when wrong would also be very high.

    In that situation I would chose to go for something else. That example is an easy one to resolve because it is so black and white. But few real world situations are that easy, for example: What would you most likely do if you had a choice of attempting a high round house to the head or a low roundhouse to the leg? And why?
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2015
  18. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Head kicks aren't risky in an mma scenario. They are hard to catch and if it's blocked you just start again. When you kick the leg and someone blocks it well.... Anderson Silva and his standing De La Riva.
     
  19. neems

    neems Valued Member

    Whatever technique your opponent doesn't expect is usually effective,that can be obscure and difficult techniques to execute imo.
     
  20. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Would you always chose a head kick over a low roundhouse ?
     

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