Do you punch like bruce Lee

Discussion in 'Jeet Kune Do' started by karl52, Jul 27, 2014.

  1. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I'm probably on a loser here.

    Although I feel I have a very good understanding of mechanics, I have fairly weak hands, always have had and I'm sure this translates into a weaker punch than someone much stronger.

    I hope I make up for it with balance, recovery and so on, but it's probably why I ended up doing an art where you can elbow and kick people. :D
     
  2. Yatezy

    Yatezy One bad mamba jamba

    I've only watched the third video but I'm gonna pipe in.

    When if was taught how to box I was told not to turn my fist over. So the punch was similar to your supported punch. Although the reason was not a power one, it was to keep your defence tight and stop your elbows flaring outwards. Having punched both ways there's very little difference in power from what I can make out.

    As pointed out already it seemsn you are purposely trying to disregard the unsupported punch by not making an effort (not putting your shoulder into it for instances). It maybe a lack of boxing knowledge on your half.
     
  3. Kave

    Kave Lunatic

    Personally I am of the opinion that boxers are already quite capable of punching with a reasonable level of force. I know this because I have had the fortune (misfortune?) of sparring against people who box. I would be surprised if someone discovered a new way of punching that was substantially better than how boxers are already doing it, after all boxing is an art that has been refined over a significant period of time.

    All that being said, I don't understand why the original poster seems to place such a focus on power. Sure, being able to hit hard is useful, but in my opinion it is not the most important aspect of punching. A haymaker punch may generate a lot of power, but it is telegraphed and leaves you open defensively. If you ask the boxers/MMAers who do roll their hand at the end of a punch why they do it, I think you will find the reasoning behind it has very little to do with power generation and a lot to do with raising your shoulder so you can tuck your chin behind it.

    Combat sports and fighting in general are both about hitting without being hit, defense matters when you are not just hitting a bag. That's why striking while mobile is the key and any boxer will tell you that boxing is about footwork more than it is about your hands. There will inevitably be tradeoffs between offense and defense, and often you will find that punches are thrown with less than maximum power so that defense can be better maintained. It is very telling that the most important punch in any boxers arsenal is the jab, which is also the punch least likely to do any damage.

    Hitting hard doesn't make you a good fighter, and being feather-fisted doesn't necessarily mean you will be a poor fighter. There have been plenty of boxing champs who made a habit of beating people who could throw punches with a lot more power. Slapsie Maxie was the undisputed light heavyweight champion back when there was really only one official sanctioning body, he fought 298 matches and won 222 of them, but only 19 by KO. He was the most feather-fisted of any boxer, yet he still managed to become the world champ. In my experience fighters tend to worry a lot less about power than the people who just hit bags and pads. I'm not suggesting that power is not a factor, but I am saying that it not the most important factor in a fight.
     
  4. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Is this a serious thread? I can't tell if it's a joke thread or not, but a lot of what is being said in those pictures seems like a load of non sense. 40% really how many punches did they test to get that 40% figure?
     
  5. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I think he's trying to sell something...
     
  6. karl52

    karl52 openminded

    You look like a pretty strong fellow to me and I think your core mechanics are pretty spot on,and what you see as weak are just minor breaks in the kinetic chain from the shoulder,I certainly wouldnt want to be on the end of one of your hooks. Im offering you the ability to have much stronger hands than you do now for free,by refining your kinetic chain in your punches your balance,recovery,speed etc will be much improved.
    The way I see it JKD is an art of all ranges,if you feel weak in any particular one thats the one Bruce would tell you to Focus on.Because ultimately your weakest range will be the one that fails under pressure.I feel I have an eye for detail and like I say I can promise a significant step up from your jab through to your hooks.surely that means you could be on a winner?

    Im willing to travel:D

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here what a few guys have said about the kinetic punching from the Hustle MMA Gym Wrexham,they were all throwing classic boxing punches at various levels,Ive also taught at shotton ABC


    J Hill “tonight has made a massive difference, cheers mate”

    L Jones “Thank you great session from an excellent teacher”

    N Edwards “Some good tips from Karl Eastwood on kinetic punching”

    J Pulford “thanks mate it was great the techniques you showed me and I learnt loads which I never knew or would of known, great teachings”


    A percentage doesnt change the validity of a technique


    Heres Keith at 70,not strong by any means but very good technique,hes using the kinetc punch for more of a pre-emptive strike for self defence
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIaaStySHEQ&list=PLa3lfJInckC2imHBZRxvlqrlEWt1PBTsT&index=10"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIaaStySHEQ&list=PLa3lfJInckC2imHBZRxvlqrlEWt1PBTsT&index=10[/ame]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2014
  7. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Karl, I don't mean to be rude, but if you are only interested in having a conversation with Simon, you could have done that in private.

    You have ignored everyone else's posts in this thread, which makes it appear as if you are more interested in promoting your classes than having a discussion about your video with this community.

    I'm sure that's not the case, and look forward to you addressing some of the very good points raised in this thread.

    Thanks in advance :)
     
  8. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    I'm just instantly distrustful of anyone who puts a number on something that they clearly haven't come to honestly.

    The percentage figure was made up, so why should I believe anything else he has to say?
     
  9. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    But look at the clearly not made up at all testimonies!
     
  10. ap Oweyn

    ap Oweyn Ret. Supporter

    Karl,

    This is sounding more and more like advertising. Offers to travel to provide instruction. Testimonials from gym owners and fighters. Videos previewing your material. Etc.

    Tread carefully. We're a discussion forum. If we get the sense that your primary interest in MAP is as a billboard, we'll need to moderate your posts. Fair enough?
     
  11. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Ugh, there it is again. The Bruce Lee worship. Who cares what Bruce would telll you? That is a guess anyways. He has been dead for decades.

    I am all for respecting the past masters in your lineage. And even honoring them.

    But the Bruce Lee worship really turns me off his stuff. And it isn't even his fault. I doubt he would like how things have developed. Although I don't know this for a fact. I don't pretend to speak for a long dead person.

    But wasn't he all about integrating martial arts and making it your own? And not blindly following tradition for the sake of it? Yet people follow him the same way. I can't help but feel a lot of his followers completely miss the point.

    So, we respect CLF's founders and past masters, but our teachers don't run around class saying "Chan Heung would have said this about that stance."

    Integration into one's own thoughts instead of being a follower and mindlessly quoting someone or pretending to know what they would say. That is the difference between honoring and worshipping.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  12. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter


    Offers to provide instruction to other instructors, which shows a lot of hubris and not much respect.

    Sorry, but from what I have seen on MAP, I would rather go study from Simon anyways. For one thing he has integrated his learnings into his own thinking and practice and doesn't run around quoting and pretending he knows what Bruce Lee would say.
     
  13. Combat Sports

    Combat Sports Formerly What Works Banned

    I started watching that video and kept saying to myself: "They are going to forget Tommy Morrison...everybody does..." and I was so happy when he was on there as #1! He was one of my heroes growing up. Such a sad and haunting story for that guy.
     
  14. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Let's take a look at Keith.

    Hands by his side, a square stance, jumping up as he punches, no return to any sort of guard. So although his punch ay land with power, the rest of his body mechanics are terrible.
    I'm yet to find someone who just stands still while you hit them.

    Thank you for the offer of some training, but I'll politely decline. Part of the reason is I think you're wrong about a break in the kinetic chain, as I still maintain I'm using the correct mechanics and partly because I'm not particularly bothered. I have more important things going on than learning how to hit differently.

    Let's look at a few other points and clear some things up.

    You've repeatedly mentioned Bruce Lee and while I don't pretend to be a JKD expert, or as knowledgeable as someone like Hannibal on the subject, I did study JKD for several years and do have some level of understanding.

    What other than some Bruce Lee videos do you know of Bruce's punching?

    Do you understand the full mechanics of a floating punch, because many don't and think you can "get it" from a video.

    A final point: I post a lot of instructional videos on MAP, but not one has been about self promotion, in fact you may have seen the last two videos on the Technique Thread have been posted from the new MAP You Tube channel.

    The reason is I'm looking to promote discussion, not show how good I am.
    I have a fairly good understanding of mechanics and hopefully that shows in the videos I post.
    The senior martial artist can point out the mistakes, similarities, or drills they do compared to what I show, while the beginner to intermediate viewers hopefully learn a few tricks of the trade.

    I would urge you to "empty your cup", as I have.

    As an example those who trained with me (PASmith) in the Judo session at the MAP Meet will tell you I was pretty raw and lacking skill (you could tell by the way he bounced my head off the floor like a medicine ball :D), while one hour later I was taking command of my own boxing session.

    One minute the teacher, next minute the student.

    As many have said we don't doubt your power, but it needs to be trained with footwork, distance, speed, balance, timing, counter time, beats, half beats, cadence and so on.
     
  15. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Leaving aside many of the other points that have been validly raised, inclusing some shockingly bad boxing technique on the "wrong way" part, you aren't punching like Bruce

    For starters your impact area is "wrong" (In Bruce Lee terms) because Bruce advocated hitting with the bottom 3

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    Bruce also had no issue transferring his power when he WAS wearing gloves

    [​IMG]

    This is an example of people who trained with Bruce explaining what he taught them

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6EHneoS-r8"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6EHneoS-r8[/ame]

    Richard Bustillo was actually a pro boxer, and was also feared by most who trained with him...nice guy, but a real scrapper

    Also to echo what Simon said earlier, power doesn't mean beans if you can't land it. Bruce's secret was NOT his power - it was his ability to move and intercept. A powerful punch is useless without a delivery system.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    This is my Sifu showing the 1" punch

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=489590287810768

    The body engagement combined with relaxation is key -and Bruce got that from Wing Chun and his Tai Chi exposure. If you have those missing once again you aren't punching like Bruce

    I don't punch like Bruce and I do JKD....instead I am working on punching like me.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  17. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    That's slightly different than the video Karl posted earlier though:

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en2nM-7XIe4"]Bruce Lee Strength - One and six inch punch HD!!! - YouTube[/ame]

    As Singh is retracting his fist before striking, BUT Singh's punch IS a punch, whereas in the video above, Bruce doesn't retract his fist in a preparatory movement, but is doing more of a push (though, I guess that could well be because he doesn't want to hurt the guy he's hitting).

    This guy (no idea who he is) does it without retracting (well, he does a fraction of an inch, but I'll let him off :p ), though I don't trust board-breakers, as it's too easy to rig the board (skip to 1'20" if you don't want to hear him yakking):

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhrTbYRMjeQ"]ONE INCH PUNCH - YouTube[/ame]

    Is there video of a "perfect" 1" punch?
     
  18. Fish Of Doom

    Fish Of Doom Will : Mind : Motion Supporter

    singh seems to do something funky with his back foot when he punches. hard to tell, but it kinda looks like he lifts his heel and drops it on impact. would be interesting if there's any insight you could share on that (if it's what i think it is, it seems pretty similar to what the bajiquan folks from helsinki do rather than the more typical stomping from other baji lineages, which is interesting)
     
  19. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    only one i ever saw which impressed me was an old video tape of Paul Whitrod of chow gar :fist was close to his body, no wind up or backward movement just straight shock power, dropped the guy through a chest protector ... he didnt go backwards he went straight down think i binned the tape though lol
     
  20. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I've seen many try this punch over the years and they are often all arms.

    Stand in a boxers type stance and turn your rear heel forward.

    Note how it drive the leading hip forward.

    This is the start of the one inch punch.

    The rear heel sets off the chain reaction.
     

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