Martial arts questions

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Music Man, Nov 21, 2015.

  1. Music Man

    Music Man Valued Member

    It's been a good while since I've posted here. In that time I've done Karate training. But Im looking to get into other styles that have a different approach and feel.

    The 3 styles that Im looking at most are Krav Maga, Japanese Ju Jitsu and Systema. My whole approach is real world self defense as well as a system I can spend a lifetime growing and learning with.

    With that criteria which between these three systems do you think is the best?

    Im also a full time professional musician (drummer). I do have some health issues that I deal with. I have tendonitis in both wrists a bad lower back at a bad left knee. But most instructors are willing to work around those issues with me the best they can. But I figured it would be good to mention my physical problems when it comes to consideration of which style.

    Thanks all!
     
  2. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I'd honestly avoid all three, but you might find a good gym.
     
  3. Music Man

    Music Man Valued Member

    Why would you avoid all 3?

    Just to say, I am open to other styles as well. A few other styles that look really cool to me are Boxing and Aikido. I am also completely open to any suggetions.

    Also, don't know if it really matters, but Im 39 years old as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2015
  4. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Oh don't worry about it Music Man. If you listen to half the people on MAP, they tell EVERYONE to take Judo and or Boxing- period. :p

    If you have experience as a MAist, you know the pitfalls to avoid. Check out the quality of the schools in your area. That alone might help you decide what style. If the quality of one school is better than the others - go with that one.

    If you have any links to websites of any potential schools in your area, I am sure you will get some opinions here that may help.
     
  5. Music Man

    Music Man Valued Member

  6. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Krav can be very good. It can also be -- and quite often is -- very poor. Finding a good instructor, and I mean a damn good one, is more important in Krav than most other martial arts because of how easy it is to 'fake it'. A beginner with 6 months of training in boxing / kickboxing / BJJ would have better form in boxing / kicking / grappling respectively than 90% of the Krav instructors I encountered (all of whom claimed to have done martial arts for >5 years). Be careful.
     
  7. Music Man

    Music Man Valued Member

    That's one of my fears with Krav. I have seen some pretty crappy Krav teachers in the past. But if someone is good enough at faking it Im not sure I would fully be able to tell.

    I also have a good friend who is a bjj instructor and he believes one cannot realistically train with Krav because of all the vital area strikes (throat, groin, etc). So that is a concern as well. I personally feel bjj is not the best style for street self defense so it may just be his perspective based off of his training and teaching.
     
  8. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Krav and Systema can have a lot of pitfalls as far as quality control goes.

    Japanese Jujutsu can be the same, there is a wide range in quality and authenticity. Another consideration is that not everything you cover in JJJ will be directly applicable to modern self defence, you will need a teacher that not only knows the system but also has some knowledge of what constitutes modern self defence.

    Judo and Boxing are recommended so much because of the training methodology they use and the cross over they have into self defence.
     
  9. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Experience in one system does not necessarily translate into knowledge of others. I've seen plenty of experienced martial artists think that complete tosh are good examples of martial arts.
     
  10. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Music Man, good to have you back on MAP.

    The problem with many self defence systems is that they are systems that rely on actually being attacked.

    Waiting until you are attacked is hardly self defence, as it's then a one on one (or more) and a test of who is the best fighter.

    So alternative methods are required.

    Unfortunately sitting in a classroom with slides showing statistics on crime and police reports isn't going to attract students, where websites saying, "DANGER IS WAITING ON EVERY STREET CORNER", sadly does.

    Self defence starts well before any altercation, so rather than giving you a suggestion on what art to take I'd say do an art you are interested in because it helps develop you physically, mentally and possibly spiritually and back that up with the occasional seminar.

    A good seminar will have you questioning the way you approach your own art.

    Many instructors here will have had Krav Maga, Ju Jitsu and Systema guys at their gyms and not been impressed.

    Likewise those same instructors have been to other gyms and been humbles themselves.

    It's often not about the art, but who is teaching it and how you apply it.

    Also ask yourself why you want to do self defence.

    Have you been attacked or scared recently, or are you just being cautious?

    If you're 35 and gone through life without being attacked maybe you have in-built skills for de-escalating or avoiding danger.

    Remember the pen is mightier than the sword and words will help you a lot more than a right cross.
     
  11. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    I've never seen systema look good, and there's a high degree of variance in the standards of both Japanese ju jitsu and Krav. Might be that you have the world's best teacher across the street from you, might be that you have a dude who took three months of lessons and decided it was time to invent his own martial art. Boxing is always a good idea, so is, as Aaradia mentioned, judo. :evil:
     
  12. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    All I got from this is "The penis mightier."
     
  13. raaeoh

    raaeoh never tell me the odds

    As has already been brought up. You should probably avoid Krav. A buddy of mine was going on about how great his Krav class was. I went with him to check it out. It was a pksa school that one of their 3 yr bbs took an online certification.
     
  14. Kurtka Jerker

    Kurtka Jerker Valued Member

    Seen some good Krav but it's the exception. I've seen some good Japanese jujutsu but at its best it's good as an academic study of classical martial arts; the ones that advertise "modern" or "self defense" jujutsu are rarely decent and almost never impressive.

    I have never seen even okay Systema.


    Honestly you have to consider what you need, and the odds of finding it in one package or school are very slim.
    For realistic self defense, you need teaching and practice on identifying threats/danger areas and managing your value as a target; you need training on dealing with confrontations that have not become violent as well as recognizing setups for predatory attacks; you need realistic resistant training in which you build experience with social violence, predatory violence and nonviolent confrontation; you need to throw down in settings where your opponent may deploy a weapon, bring backup, pin you in your car or not really want to fight at all, deep down.
    You also need experience recalling events, descriptions and numbers as well as intuitively fitting your actions into the legal framework where you operate. And you need to be able to explain why what you did was reasonable, necessary or legal.

    Hemorrhage control and CPR are important and probably more likely to see use than any high-speed takedowns. Depending on your region, regularly carrying and being proficient with a firearm is an important consideration. This adds a whole other layer of training.

    Basically, unless you've got weekly access to a Shivworks group or the equivalent, you're going to have to build your skill set on your time. Very few schools put the whole package together in a realistic fashion. Even those that do won't fit perfectly to your environment, personality and abilities.



    But any martial art where you actually do what you practice every class (this means unscripted, full-resistance training) will teach you to throw down. MMA, BJJ, Judo, SAMBO, Boxing, Wrestling, Muay Thai, most forms of Kickboxing... Really any martial art with a strong full-contact competition format will do. You don't even need to compete yourself (although it is rewarding).

    SAMBO covers all empty-hand ranges of a fight for me. I get plenty of practice with the pre-fight/interview at work. I spend a lot of time at the range and doing resistant training with firearms. I spend a lot of time looking at and experimenting with new tactics and methods and in spite of all this there are still some significant holes in my game that I just don't get opportunity to practice in a realistic way very often. Integration of all these skill sets is the most difficult part to find a group to practice with.

    So if you just want to be able to fight, just train with fighters. Couldn't be simpler and there's no need nor room for theatrics.
    If you want comprehensive and realistic practice of self protection, it's going to take a significant amount of study and work to build the understanding and mindset that permits someone to approach the subject in a pragmatic, thorough fashion. And the onus to do so is squarely on you. There's so much nonsense in that field that you can't really just go somewhere and be taught it straight up. You have to be able to sift through the crap for the pieces you want and then find a way to work them into a cohesive approach. The schools that do this effectively are few, far between and surrounded by schools that claim the same thing but don't deliver.
     
  15. Music Man

    Music Man Valued Member

    Thanks everyone for the help! At this point it looks like my best option, from what you guys have posted, is to take the Boxing class and then fill in the holes with bjj with my friend that is a teacher for ground things.My approach to ground fighting is still to get back to my feet asap. Im sure my friend will work towards that end with me.

    Thanks again all!
     
  16. Music Man

    Music Man Valued Member

    I do have one more thing to ask. I have been fascinated by Aikido for many years. I have read a ton about it. So many people say it's useless in a street self defense situation, but others swear it's amazing for self defense on the street.

    So which is it really?
     
  17. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Having done it for quite a while I'll toss in my 0.02

    The techniques and principles can be good if effectively applied. The actual training tends to suck unless you get lucky and there are far too many hippy-dippy places out there. I also tend to view the lack of modern attacks as a weakness. Practicing against shomen tsuki does not prepare you for a jab or cross.

    It has it's uses; semi compliant people, arrest techniques, grip stripping, weapon retention, and techniques of opportunity. For full contact fighting though it really needs to be paired with a striking system and there are only a handful of techniques I use on a regular basis in live training.

    In the end it's what you make of it.
     
  18. Music Man

    Music Man Valued Member

    Another thing I have thought a lot about is if I use any kind of striking style in a street fight I could very well break a hand or knuckle. As a professional musician this is a scary thought. That's one reason a style like Japanese ju jitsu does look appealing to me. I know there are some strikes in this style but from what I can tell it's more throws, joint manipulations and things like that.
     
  19. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    I'll throw in a curve ball here.

    I agree with most of what has been said above. The styles you list are not necessarily going to be more effective for self defence (look up self defence books in the search terms here). Ju Jitsu has perhaps the most potential of the listed three for being a good dojo but I want to ask you something else.

    Do you really want to quit your karate?

    It might not be orientated towards self defence in your dojo, but the potential for application is there with a little self education and some seminars. Self defence at your age should not be a big issue for you anyway. Ultimately you've invested time and energy getting to your level. People do hit training walls, they get bored, they quit, and they jump ships, and it is not always the best course of action compared with staying on and getting better at what they already know.

    That's not to say you shouldn't cross train, but you've spent three years putting in foundations and building a house. Rather than move, why not check out some other properties to help you add an extension to the existing house. Why not carry on developing and improving it?
     
  20. Music Man

    Music Man Valued Member

    My Karate instructor is very good. But, Im sure I want to change styles to something else.

    I keep doing research online about all the different styles thst are catching my interest. At this point Im looking at what's available in my area and which of those really tickles my fancy the most.

    Aikido
    Japanese Ju Jitsu
    Hapkido
    Boxing
    Krav Maga

    Those are the big ones in my area so far that most interest me. I do want the style I choose to be for self defense first and foremost. But fitness and something I can really connect with, and do for life, are also very important to me. And if I ever have to use it on the street not hurting myself with the techniques, for instance not breaking my hands, is also huge.
     

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