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  #46  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 03:20 AM
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ANGELSGYMSINGH ANGELSGYMSINGH is offline
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To Brother Panda

Yes it does bro' but you may have to re-read Master Feng, Wang and I lu-yueng's treaties. My post assumes that reader is very familiar with them and also has at least decades of experience in the Internal Martial Arts regarding research, reflection form and sparring training in the 10s of thosands hours, as I am sure your have. And agian for me this is only a requirement to at least understand what I was Master Ma Ya Liuang accomplish in his Push Hand performance. But lets take a quick review of some treatise that might help us understand our ability to accomplish what the master demonstrated:

T'ai Chi Cbuan Ching
Attributed to Immortal Wang Chung-yueh

Tai Chi is born of Wu Chi, the mother of yin and yang.
In motion they separate; in tranquility they unite.
Without excess and without insufficiency, be bent when following, contract when reaching out. If the opponent is hard, I am soft; this is called "receiving". If I go with the opponent and cause him to be defective, this is called "adhering". Respond quickly to quick movements, respond slowly to slow movements. Even though the changes are of all kinds, the principle remains one in the same. Through self-mastery you will gradually apprehend "interpreting energy .
From "interpreting energy" you will reach a state of shen, Ming (spiritual illumination).
But without a long period of arduous practice, you will be unable to suddenly possess a clear understanding.


Then Master Wang states more that can help us, warn us and also tell us how fortunate we are to even know the boundlessness of the Supreme Ultimate Fist...

The mutual coordination of yin and yang is comparable to "interpreting energy
After you acquire "interpreting energy", the more you practice, the
more skill you will obtain, and through silent remembering and
thorough examination, you will gradually arrive at the state of being
able to follow your own mind.


Man this part is important as it pertains to the first Character Secret of how to have and why to have a calm mind... Such a state is acknowledged when what one does in form is consciously done in fighting no matter what the style. The next part is a confimation of faith based on experience and as such bestowing a knowledge to the Adept concerning the assurance that his/her knowledge of self (Form work) and knowledge of others (Pushhands or sparring) will enable them to reach their goal.

The fundamental here is to forget the self and follow others.
Most make the error of rejecting the near for what is distant.
This is called, "the slightest divergence leads you far astray".
Students must thoroughly distinguish between these aspects.
Every word of this treatise is important.
There is not one extra word or reference.
Without natural intelligence you cannot apprehend these words.


That last part tells me many thing but in the context of this post I remember Fengs poem about the relationship between breathing out and in and touching and standing on the root of heaven (Dragon/Change/Water) and earth (Tiger/Tenacity/claws). Feng gives us this to place ourselves in the now at all times but this is not possible unless on has faith that the training will get them to their goal without thinking about that goal.... just the moment of the training event. The last part is a warning and a message of fortune to those of us who have such goals.


The early masters were unwilling to propagate false teachings and did
not trust just anyone. They were apprehensive about transmitting their kung-fu skills to others without good reason.


Brother Panda, if we do the work the energy connection question is solved for us. As Master Wang suggests in his statement about error, we only have to set the goal, use the strategies or postures presented in treatise and stay on the path. I have experiences that give me faith in a path that will help me reach the level of skill of Master Ma and maybe beyond.... If such goals are within your desires and imagination then I hope this helps but if not it will always be knowledge you get to when you are ready..... G

Last edited by ANGELSGYMSINGH; 26-Feb-2010 at 03:25 AM. Reason: articulation
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  #47  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 04:27 AM
WhitePanda WhitePanda is offline
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I don't care what "Master Feng, Wang and I lu-yueng's treaties" say and I have no intention of reading them, as they do NOT change what modern medical science has found (lacking) about "chi."

You may prefer to trust documents that are hundreds of years old, but I prefer to put my trust in modern science. Did you know that the Earth is not in fact flat as originally thought???

Push hands would be better explained with applied physics than with puesdo internal engergy science and ancient chinese documents.


Quote:
The early masters were unwilling to propagate false teachings and did
not trust just anyone. They were apprehensive about transmitting their kung-fu skills to others without good reason.
You're more gulible than I thought if you believe that.


Theres a video on the net called Chi master vs MMA, I highly suggest you take a look at it.

Quote:
Brother Panda, if we do the work the energy connection question is solved for us.
No, it's not. The internal energy(neurons) you are refering to requires nerves to travel from one point to another. The amount of training you have does not change that fact. Train as much as you want, it doesn't change basic genetic make up. It won't make you grow three legs, it won't turn you into spiderman and it won't make you able throw chi blasts at your opponent.

If this master is so skilled and so sure of what he believes in why doesn't he put it up to science study from a reputable unbias source??
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  #48  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 04:41 AM
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ANGELSGYMSINGH ANGELSGYMSINGH is offline
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Brother Panda

Go easy brother this is just a process and nothing more. Your lashing out is normal during confusion. Many of us in this room have been through the same. The Grandmaster and I were talking about this very thing last night when discussing training accomplishments and the consequences which is normally loss.... and more confusion... lol. Confusion is a good thing cause it means one is about to learn something. In my gullible state I wish you well dude... now lets go one to another subject... G
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  #49  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 04:57 AM
WhitePanda WhitePanda is offline
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Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go easy brother this is just a process and nothing more. Your lashing out is normal during confusion. Many of us in this room have been through the same. The Grandmaster and I were talking about this very thing last night when discussing training accomplishments and the consequences which is normally loss.... and more confusion... lol. Confusion is a good thing cause it means one is about to learn something. In my gullible state I wish you well dude... now lets go one to another subject... G
I am not lashing out and I am not confused. I am just being real. Chi and Santa don't exist. Believing in them won't change that.
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  #50  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 05:09 AM
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ANGELSGYMSINGH ANGELSGYMSINGH is offline
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Panda I did not see much on your profile and your position is strongly entrenched I would like to know more about you. So Panda how is your Kung Fu going? How many years have you been studying the arts? Who are you teaching? Where are you studying and what style are you studying? Do you have a meditation regimine you can share or a style technique you may suggest?
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  #51  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 05:22 AM
WhitePanda WhitePanda is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANGELSGYMSINGH View Post
Panda I did not see much on your profile and your position is strongly entrenched I would like to know more about you. So Panda how is your Kung Fu going? How many years have you been studying the arts? Who are you teaching? Where are you studying and what style are you studying? Do you have a meditation regimine you can share or a style technique you may suggest?
I fail to see how that is relevent to the conversation. You seem to know so much about the inner workings of the human body. Are you a doctor? Where did you study medicine? Is your master a doctor? Where did he study? What journal did you and your master publish your findings on chi and internal energy and how it can be transfered?

Point is, I am not the one making the claims. You're claiming chi exists, you're claiming it can be transfered into other humanbeings, ergo the burdern of proof rests on your shoulders not mine.
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  #52  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 05:38 AM
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ANGELSGYMSINGH ANGELSGYMSINGH is offline
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Panda... Fixation is not needed... you made your point and I made mine... You don't accept what I've said and thats your perogative....I changed the subject so that I could get to know you as a fellow blogger.... now do you wish to share MA Backrounds or are you just wanting to sustain a pointless issue? If you want to do the latter then just ignore my posts or send me a private message and lets leave this page for the other bloggers to discuss more relevent topics... like sharing backrounds and ideas.

I will answer some of your questions and would like to know alittle about you if you are truely interested in knowing my backround:

My mentor in TCM is Grandmaster & Dr. Gary Stier and he studied in China after serving as a Corpsman in the Vietnam War. I have an article series in the Jade Dragon magazine and the Grandmaster and I have been asked to publish some work in a ATCQQA newsletter. Maybe this topic could be something of interest to that audience... ok quid quo pro Panda... lol...
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  #53  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 06:12 AM
WhitePanda WhitePanda is offline
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Whatever dude. You still want to believe this stuff, that's your perogative.

Last edited by WhitePanda; 26-Feb-2010 at 06:28 AM.
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  #54  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 06:37 AM
YouKnowWho YouKnowWho is offline
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Sometime the fun of the internet discussion is "you don't know who I'm" and "I don't know who you are". The moment that "I know who you are" and "you know who I'm", all the fun is gone.

I once had a pen pal when I was young. After I had sent my letter to her, she dropped her return letter in my mail box without stamp. Following the address, one night I found where she lived. By peaking through the window, I saw a fat girl (also not very pretty) jumped up and down on her bed. I wasn't too sure that was the girl whom I wrote my letter to. She had a school class schedule hanged on her wall. I went home and got myself a high power binoculars. Through my binoculars, I could verify the hand writing on her wall and that was the same hand writing in the letter that she dropped in my mail box. After that day, I stopped my pen pal relation with her.

Last edited by YouKnowWho; 26-Feb-2010 at 06:42 AM.
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  #55  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 08:10 AM
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inthespirit inthespirit is offline
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Came across this on youtube today:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaXdgD2o5uY"]YouTube[/ame]
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  #56  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 08:13 AM
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ANGELSGYMSINGH ANGELSGYMSINGH is offline
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Now this is funny

Master Wong,
You definitely changed the subject. I am not sure if its an internal or external thing but I kinda like chubby gals with cute faces and sharpe minds. Either way I thank you for the redirect. Hey I wrangeled an invite down your way in June for the Chin Woo Association event. I guess we may meet after all.
I have been looking at some Youtube videos of the event and have found the ceremonies very much like Sikh festivals. They seem to celebrate everything that represents Martial Science.... I am somewhat excited.
How are the dudes in the Rumsoaked room? Don't see the guys much after they booted me.. Well accept Cloudz who invited me here. I heard the story about the head guy circulating my article as an example summary of what the thread was all about that I started, said he thought the article was worth exploring and then was told that it was mine.... Now that made me smile when I was told this... But I learned alot there... Anyway...
What kinda IMA stuff are you researching now?
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  #57  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 08:33 AM
WhitePanda WhitePanda is offline
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Hey, is this Chin Woo event organized by Jimmy Wong?
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  #58  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 03:13 PM
El Medico El Medico is offline
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Disrupting someone at a close distance via visual cues,even enough so that they actually stumble or fall is not unknown.I saw a film of B.K.Frantzis where he did this to his demo partner-but BKF didn't claim it was any sort of energetic transference or somesuch.

So far as has ever been publicly demoed,empty force type practices have only been performed on believers and students.When we get a volunteer who does not know what type of experiment he is actually involved in,-(quite common in many behavioral tests,btw)-cannot see the practitioner attempting to effect him,and the effect happens,we'll believe it.Of course,this is always declined as "the ch'i would hurt the subject."Which makes for a nice and convenient,albeit lame ,exit for the claimant.

Whether I have any experience in IMAs,Greco-Roman wrestling,or tiddlywinks is irrelevant.

Belated welcome to MAP,Angel.
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  #59  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 04:41 PM
YouKnowWho YouKnowWho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANGELSGYMSINGH View Post
You definitely changed the subject.
CMA guys are already the minority here. It makes no sense for us to argue among ourselves.

My inlaw used to live in Fayetteville one block from the Stacy Weaver and near the Burger King and Walmart. One CLF master that I have met in Taiji Legacy also live in Fayetteville.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhitePanda View Post
Hey, is this Chin Woo event organized by Jimmy Wong?
Yes! It is.

Last edited by YouKnowWho; 26-Feb-2010 at 04:49 PM.
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  #60  
Old 26-Feb-2010, 05:04 PM
El Medico El Medico is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
CMA guys are already the minority here. It makes no sense for us to argue among ourselves. ......
I can levitate.And turn lead into gold.

Glad you won't argue about that with me.
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