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  #16  
Old 02-Feb-2010, 04:48 PM
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Ciar2001 Ciar2001 is offline
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In Chowgar you don't realise that you begin developing root from the first day you start, it starts from first form all the way through, the longer you train the better and more obvious it becomes, that's I see root anyways.
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  #17  
Old 03-Feb-2010, 02:55 AM
Anorhyme Anorhyme is offline
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Originally Posted by geezer View Post
On the other hand, I was constantly ridiculed for my weak static stance. I suffer from bone-fusions in my ankles which make it physiologicly impossible for me to correctly assume some of the classical stance positions. .
That should have no effect on developing the parts of your body involved in rooting. Your feet are just platforms. They could be wood or metal, it doesn't matter.

Your root comes from your center and extends out past whatever is at the end of your leg.
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  #18  
Old 03-Feb-2010, 04:52 AM
geezer geezer is offline
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Originally Posted by Anorhyme View Post
That should have no effect on developing the parts of your body involved in rooting. Your feet are just platforms. They could be wood or metal, it doesn't matter.
Yeah that's why there are so many amputees with prosthetic legs that are push-hands and chi-sau adepts. Did I ever tell you about my great great great grand-uncle Ahab? Boy, could he ever root after that whale took his leg!
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  #19  
Old 03-Feb-2010, 06:52 AM
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If your opponent can push your center to be outside of your base, you will fall. If your body has some build in vibration power that can cancel out any outside force, any outside force cannot change the relationship between your center and your base, you have good rooting.
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  #20  
Old 03-Feb-2010, 03:38 PM
Anorhyme Anorhyme is offline
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Yeah that's why there are so many amputees with prosthetic legs that are push-hands and chi-sau adepts. Did I ever tell you about my great great great grand-uncle Ahab? Boy, could he ever root after that whale took his leg!
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  #21  
Old 10-Feb-2010, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Anorhyme View Post
That should have no effect on developing the parts of your body involved in rooting. Your feet are just platforms. They could be wood or metal, it doesn't matter.

Your root comes from your center and extends out past whatever is at the end of your leg.
Geezer has a valid point. He's not talking about just the feet, he's talking about his ankles. If you have no range of motion in your joints then you have no means of adjusting and routing incoming force through your structure. You would just topple over like a statue.
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  #22  
Old 24-Feb-2010, 02:06 AM
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ANGELSGYMSINGH ANGELSGYMSINGH is offline
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Thanks John and Geezer. That exchange of ideas concerning the terminology and application of such was powerful and informative.
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  #23  
Old 08-Oct-2010, 12:04 AM
G.L G.L is offline
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How would oneself train his/her reaction time or reflexes?
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  #24  
Old 25-Dec-2010, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Infrazael View Post
... do boxers, thai boxers, or karate fighters also have root? What about wrestlers, judo, or jujitsu fighters? How would you define their "root," if they had one and also would it be different than a kung fu fighter?
There are similarities and differences. When I cross-trained at my local boxing club, I was taught to root just before launching a punch or combination of punches. It was never called "rooting", but was taught nonetheless. Lorne Bernard's Shaolin White Crane Kung Fu book teaches about power just the same as my first boxing lesson:

"Power ... comes up through the feet and legs and out to the fists."

In Thai boxing - my core art - I was taught balance rather than rooting. However, you're taught to set up yout footwork before striking. This has some similarities to rooting, but the principles conveyed to me were being in the right position to strike and being in balance.

Likewise, wrestling has significant focus on balance, which isn't 100% the same as root.

BJJ doesn't "root" at all. The main focus is position, i.e. achieving a dominant position. This is one of the innovations for which BJJ is famous. Static "rooting" is the last thing you want to do, because you always want to be moving to keep your opponent busy. Even "dynamic root" isn't something that would be at the forefront of your mind.

Despite enjoying CMA, training my "root" is one of those things that I found over-emphasised. I found that the principles of being in balance and set up for the strike to be more useful. Some may say these principles relate to rooting, but it's the drills that count IME.
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  #25  
Old 26-Dec-2010, 03:58 AM
geezer geezer is offline
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There are similarities and differences. When I cross-trained at my local boxing club, I was taught to root just before launching a punch or combination of punches. It was never called "rooting", but was taught nonetheless.
This is pretty much the way we approach it in the two eskrima systems I've practiced... which isn't surprising since the headmen in both systems were also boxers. And one of those systems (Latosa Escrima) has had a lot of influence on some WT, such as the EBMAS Wing Tzun group. As I said on a previous post, I have a badly fused left ankle which makes my wing chun pretty wierd. I can't physically get the kind of static rooting the classical versions of the art demand. But I do have decent dynamic balance, so I adapt and make things work anyway I can. Maybe that's why I've been doing this a long time and am still not a "true believer" in the all the classical approaches. I have no choice, since my body can't do all that stuff the "traditional way". So I "cheat". Cheating (or modifying) is good...when it works, right? At least that's what my current eskrima teacher preaches. Actually, my current Wing Chun instructor is pretty creative in helping me as well.

Last edited by geezer; 26-Dec-2010 at 04:05 AM.
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  #26  
Old 02-Jan-2011, 05:54 PM
xingyiren xingyiren is offline
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Hi guys, I propose that the word , "root" is taking the discussion way off-track. There is no distinction in traditional kungfu training between "static" and "dynamic" root. In fact, the chinese word for this theoretical concept is not remotely associated with the english definition of "root".

What people call "root" is simply one aspect of proper body alignment (shen fa). Many training methods use standing (zhan zhuang) as a beginning exercise for body awareness and muscle control. This is also commonly referred to as pole standing and is associated with developing a root simply because the analogy to a tree is often used for this practise.

All fighting systems employ shen fa but the learning methods, training and implementation may differ. For example, wing chun uses chi sao as a training method to strengthen shen fa, taiji uses push hands, xing yi uses two-man forms.

So to answer the original post, YES I have root. Everyone does - but some people can see past the limitations of poor translation and gain a more complete understanding of true "root" - shen fa.
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  #27  
Old 02-Jan-2011, 09:58 PM
El Medico El Medico is offline
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Yup,your first paragraph summed it up quite well,Xingyiren!
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  #28  
Old 12-Jan-2011, 03:22 PM
Browneagle Browneagle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xingyiren View Post
Hi guys, I propose that the word , "root" is taking the discussion way off-track. There is no distinction in traditional kungfu training between "static" and "dynamic" root. In fact, the chinese word for this theoretical concept is not remotely associated with the english definition of "root".

What people call "root" is simply one aspect of proper body alignment (shen fa). Many training methods use standing (zhan zhuang) as a beginning exercise for body awareness and muscle control. This is also commonly referred to as pole standing and is associated with developing a root simply because the analogy to a tree is often used for this practise.

All fighting systems employ shen fa but the learning methods, training and implementation may differ. For example, wing chun uses chi sao as a training method to strengthen shen fa, taiji uses push hands, xing yi uses two-man forms.

So to answer the original post, YES I have root. Everyone does - but some people can see past the limitations of poor translation and gain a more complete understanding of true "root" - shen fa.
Xingyiren
sounds like you basically are saying that energy drills are actually your root (shenfa) body aware ness of opponents whilst horse stances or zhan zhuang is body awareness of self correct?
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  #29  
Old 31-Jan-2011, 01:37 PM
jinkan jinkan is offline
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Originally Posted by Infrazael View Post
What is root? How do you (personally) define it? And how do you develop this root?
Rooting is the ability to grab onto or suck on the ground.

Rooting ability comes from the development of the internal part of the body. No internal development, no root.

Rooting ability is developed through time and practice. A lot of time because that is the nature of the structures within the body that are involved with internal development.
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  #30  
Old 11-Oct-2012, 04:20 AM
antoine9891 antoine9891 is offline
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I luv it

I luv what u are saying concerning root. Could u explain in detail some proper exercises a beginner could read and practice to properly develop their root.

Life is not about rushing to the end,.. But enjoying everyday lessons slowly through time. "Antoine Morehead AOF"
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