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  #61  
Old 26-Oct-2014, 12:59 PM
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47MartialMan 47MartialMan is offline
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Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
<< to say that not all Buddhist monks are required to be celibate... but it's a bit of a non-issue as being a gymnastic actor or martial artist who performs for tourists is, under any definition, not a monk and this is what many of those at the present day Shaolin site undeniably are.>>
Shaolin is a misadventure of a time long since pass and those who reference do so, cannot verify any real claim

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Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
So then you are saying:
Persons who live at the temple and cater to tourists while perhaps being Buddhists are not "true" shao lin monks or priests? That there are also students/disciples at the old temple who train without commercial or public involvement. These are considered valid (I think?)
As per my above response. China has it as a tourist attraction. They need to have people to "portray monks" to promote that tourism. And, I do not believe that people "actually live in the temple"


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Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
In all cases, you have postulated that because the old temple is open for tours, Shao lin has ceased to be a living, continuing line.
I think you have thrown the baby out with the bath water - although I shy of the analogy, if every burned Franciscan monastery and murdered Franciscan meant the end of the order, it would have perished in Francis' lifetime.
To put the spirit and life of shao lin in the building is exactly "tourist" thought. If that were so, shao lin alive and well as long as someone paints the building and repairs the roof.
Although this part of your post, may have some point, people tend to forget that the Franciscan order follow a religious belief adhering to those particulars

Shaolin's particular was the study of Chen (chan) and people who soley practice martial arts claiming to be Shaolin, cannot be a particular of that. Some scholars believe that martial arts/artists in Shaolin were rebels incognito. Yes, Shaolin does have history, but some of it is shrouded and used for the sake of propaganda

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In every destruction and in every age shao lin have been driven out and have ventured out. The "diaspora" of shao lin monasticism has been going on for some time.
Actually, for some time, it was "idle". Being dilapidated. China was not concerned with it from the the late 1700's to 1950's-ish.


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Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
In the last century, my master grew up in Taiwan not hunan and for 40 years he passed the way here in the US. There are plenty of others too. Some of them are well known.
And though he may have skills, he cannot lay claim that it is authentic "Shaolin"

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Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
even now in China shao lin is a restricted, monitored situation.
Yes, monitored for its commercial prospect

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Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
They had better keep the true training in back because the chinese government since the last emperor has considered any shao lin priest a real threat.
The 'true meaning" of Shaolin? What is that? Lets go back to "why" it was built, that would be its "true meaning". And China's "Last Emperor" was never concerned with Shaolin, he was concerned with keeping his throne while Japanese were starting to occupy his country

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If China were to invade the us or perhaps Russia, both would squash free shao lin quickly, either reducing it to feckless public wushu dancing or eradicating it entirely on a grudge.
China would not invade anyone with "Shaolin" pretenders. They know Shaolin is a tourist tool . China has a military force

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Next, you will tell me a man disguised as a Kozak can not possibly be shao lin, when it may well be the only way someday that there is one?
"A man disguised as a Kozak can not possibly be shao lin"...CORRECT
You hit the word-disguised. Which means not true

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Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
But, there do indeed remain shao lin on the line and may heaven and kinder fortune grant it always be so.
People referencing "Shaolin" in a martial art without knowing "why" it was built in the first place, never can claim "true". People who practice Shaolin (martial art) "are living a dream"
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....... for what its worth is to keep it real, martial arts are not always about fighting at all, even when your sparring. Sometimes its just about fitness and learning some technique. .
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  #62  
Old 26-Oct-2014, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Bian View Post
Quoted for stupidity.
Yours? History is history and those who ignore it are doomed to repeat it. Look around.
Your statement has no basis in history or the present, in fact, it has no basis at all.
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  #63  
Old 26-Oct-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
Yours? History is history and those who ignore it are doomed to repeat it. Look around.
Your statement has no basis in history or the present, in fact, it has no basis at all.
History is history - the present is the present.

If China made such an aggressive move to either the US or Russia, then the latter parties are not going to be worried about a troupe of gymnasts re-enacted history for naive westerners.

Your scenario has no basis in logic or reality - in fact, it has no basis at all.
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  #64  
Old 26-Oct-2014, 05:39 PM
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<<Shaolin is a misadventure of a time long since pass and those who reference do so, cannot verify any real claim>>

Well, that can be your special secret.

<<And though he may have skills, he cannot lay claim that it is authentic "Shaolin>>

I hear a lot of "since I didn't find it" absolutes from you which numerous people know to be incorrect? Like monks got in a cryo chamber for centuries then popped out? Instead of lives, lines, histories that just kept right on going and still do?

I don't see the point of some moronic profanity removed thread and even if you like it? I suggest that may be part of why you seem to live in one world others don't and need to spend pages to justify your position and needs?
I don't get the benefit of talking to you about it or providing you an opportunity to talk more?
Find a safe place and be there ok?
Cheers! (that means done....but go ahead really. Knock yourself out you seem good at it!)
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  #65  
Old 26-Oct-2014, 05:40 PM
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KunLong, watch the masked profanity.
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  #66  
Old 26-Oct-2014, 08:51 PM
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I already posted that I was typing bu ll Shi do....but gee, I didn't see that when I looked....
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  #67  
Old 27-Oct-2014, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Bian View Post
History is history - the present is the present.

If China made such an aggressive move to either the US or Russia, then the latter parties are not going to be worried about a troupe of gymnasts re-enacted history for naive westerners.

Your scenario has no basis in logic or reality - in fact, it has no basis at all.
AGREE also per my post #60


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Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
<<Shaolin is a misadventure of a time long since pass and those who reference do so, cannot verify any real claim>>

Well, that can be your special secret.
Not a secret-a "reality"

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Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
<<And though he may have skills, he cannot lay claim that it is authentic "Shaolin>>

I hear a lot of "since I didn't find it" absolutes from you which numerous people know to be incorrect? Like monks got in a cryo chamber for centuries then popped out? Instead of lives, lines, histories that just kept right on going and still do?
Lives, lines are not going, history does. But for Shaolin, its history ggets tainted

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Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
I don't see the point of some moronic profanity removed thread and even if you like it? I suggest that may be part of why you seem to live in one world others don't and need to spend pages to justify your position and needs?
I don't get the benefit of talking to you about it or providing you an opportunity to talk more?
Find a safe place and be there ok?
Cheers! (that means done....but go ahead really. Knock yourself out you seem good at it!)
Ignorance is Bliss. There are some "Happy Shaoliners"
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Originally Posted by bodyshot View Post

....... for what its worth is to keep it real, martial arts are not always about fighting at all, even when your sparring. Sometimes its just about fitness and learning some technique. .
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  #68  
Old 28-Oct-2014, 01:26 AM
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So what if they are authentic or not. Its not up to me or you to say whether they are or not.
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  #69  
Old 28-Oct-2014, 02:29 AM
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Bollocks

You try and sell me poop as shinola it is absolutely my business to call you on it
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  #70  
Old 28-Oct-2014, 04:44 AM
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We had a performance by some Shaolin monks at my school a few years ago. Fun stuff to watch, although more acrobatics than fighting sckills IMO. And really so very different than what my school teaches. But I respect the athleticism.

They did a quick demo at each school to promote ticket sales of the performance. That performance was reserved for students of my schools to buy the tickets.

Thing is, the impression they left me with was a showman business much more than a group of devoutly religious priests. And there was something not too cool in what they did business wise. I don't remember what it was, but I was left feeling it was more of a used car salesman sort of business.......just not too impressed with the business side of things.

The performances were great though!

Here is one of those promotional quick preview performances they did at one of my other school's locations.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_QYKSyYYoM"]Shaolin Monks - YouTube[/ame]
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Last edited by aaradia; 28-Oct-2014 at 04:48 AM.
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  #71  
Old 28-Oct-2014, 04:59 AM
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The thing I noticed here is like that other forum. Some of the people who think it matters what they say and that they are "the great authority" because they're...not...to anybody?

I think everybody knows it'a a show, just hate to bash it up too much for the people who dig it? Why be an over-much bully?

Last edited by KunLong; 28-Oct-2014 at 05:01 AM.
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  #72  
Old 28-Oct-2014, 05:01 PM
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47MartialMan 47MartialMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
The thing I noticed here is like that other forum. Some of the people who think it matters what they say and that they are "the great authority" because they're...not...to anybody?

I think everybody knows it'a a show, just hate to bash it up too much for the people who dig it? Why be an over-much bully?
Allow me to state, Shaolin is "part of" martial arts in the sense of Chinese shrouded military and Imperial history.

To fully understand it, is to;

1.) Research/Realize why it was built

2.) Research/Realize why it was destroyed (a few times)

3.) Research/Realize within the past 50 years or less, it is propaganda

Denial is a terrible thing
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....... for what its worth is to keep it real, martial arts are not always about fighting at all, even when your sparring. Sometimes its just about fitness and learning some technique. .
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  #73  
Old 28-Oct-2014, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by 47MartialMan View Post
Allow me to state, Shaolin is "part of" martial arts in the sense of Chinese shrouded military and Imperial history.

To fully understand it, is to;

1.) Research/Realize why it was built

2.) Research/Realize why it was destroyed (a few times)

3.) Research/Realize within the past 50 years or less, it is propaganda

Denial is a terrible thing

Seems to me a real shao lin would say "what does it matter?"
It also seems to me that the only one trying to assert denial are the ones who wish only to satisfy themselves, have spoken and yet seem still unsatisfied? I don't see you getting satisfaction? Except from others here who are somehow on a same page with you that does not seem to promote anything of real worth to another? Others will read it and gravitate accordingly? None of the arguments will be really what convinces them, they will?
But I apologize for speaking in the beginning and can not see being trolled anymore by your onsults. Why stink it up for everyone? (No satisfaction?)
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  #74  
Old 28-Oct-2014, 10:59 PM
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But I apologize for speaking in the beginning and can not see being trolled anymore by your onsults. Why stink it up for everyone? (No satisfaction?)
Dude, ease up a bit.
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  #75  
Old 29-Oct-2014, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by KunLong View Post
Seems to me a real shao lin would say "what does it matter?"
It also seems to me that the only one trying to assert denial are the ones who wish only to satisfy themselves, have spoken and yet seem still unsatisfied? I don't see you getting satisfaction? Except from others here who are somehow on a same page with you that does not seem to promote anything of real worth to another? Others will read it and gravitate accordingly? None of the arguments will be really what convinces them, they will?
But I apologize for speaking in the beginning and can not see being trolled anymore by your onsults. Why stink it up for everyone? (No satisfaction?)
Seems to me a real shao lin would say "What does it matter?, I am going to believe what I want despite other comments and evidence."

Yes. Shaoliners are the ones who wish only to satisfy themselves

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