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  #46  
Old 07-Jun-2011, 05:01 AM
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47MartialMan 47MartialMan is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveGTKF View Post
That's one of the beauties of Martial Arts: you express it yourway(believe what you will) & I express it mine, my friend.
That maybe the beauty and way to express, but it doesn't make ALL of it accurate
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Originally Posted by bodyshot View Post

....... for what its worth is to keep it real, martial arts are not always about fighting at all, even when your sparring. Sometimes its just about fitness and learning some technique. .
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  #47  
Old 07-Jun-2011, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 47MartialMan View Post
That maybe the beauty and way to express, but it doesn't make ALL of it accurate
Remember that saying about "Before I started training a punch was a punch..."? Same thing here. "Research" on the net is not going to tell you if "authentic" Shaolin exists. By the way, what would you accept as "authentic Shaolin"?
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  #48  
Old 07-Jun-2011, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveGTKF View Post
Remember that saying about "Before I started training a punch was a punch..."? Same thing here. "Research" on the net is not going to tell you if "authentic" Shaolin exists. By the way, what would you accept as "authentic Shaolin"?
Research goes a long way in determining authenticity

Fake or reproduction Katanas and Bowie Knives doesn't make them authentic.

I guess you haven't read the whole thread.

I was once, into the belief of Shaolin. Its myths, legends and those who "appear" to be monks. I decided to "let go" and research

I can't make people stop believing in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Thor, Zeus, Chi, etc.

If ignorance is bliss, then there are a lot of "happy" people out there.



P.S. No matter what I bring forth, those who desire to withstand their beliefs, will not change.
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Originally Posted by bodyshot View Post

....... for what its worth is to keep it real, martial arts are not always about fighting at all, even when your sparring. Sometimes its just about fitness and learning some technique. .
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  #49  
Old 07-Jun-2011, 06:06 AM
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Thanks to Bruce W Sims

Your Post #38 really brings this into a fine perspective.

Best wishes to all



Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce W Sims View Post
And therein lies the core issue with the entire MA industry; regardless of where and how one grabs it.

a.) You nailed the first bit: the "owner" of the tradition gets all sorts of slack. Chinese can milk the Shaolin Temple. Koreans can knock people off of horses with TKD. Japanese can celebrate traditions which go back 500 years and have remained unchanging.

b.) People don't care if their fantasies are delusional as long as they don't have to be reminded of it. People would rather believe in an unbroken chain of custody for a given art lasting 2000 years, than face the possibility that some fella made something up during a time of chaos and then lied about its bonafides.

c.) One must be very careful about threatening people's fantasy materials. People can be very protective about how they see the world coming together. Doesn't matter how accurate and truthful a person is. Uniformly, a person's longevity is considerably shorter while burning at the stake or dangling on a rope.

Best Wishes,

Bruce
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....... for what its worth is to keep it real, martial arts are not always about fighting at all, even when your sparring. Sometimes its just about fitness and learning some technique. .
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  #50  
Old 07-Jun-2011, 01:41 PM
Bruce W Sims Bruce W Sims is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveGTKF View Post
That's one of the beauties of Martial Arts: you express it yourway(believe what you will) & I express it mine, my friend.
I don't dispute your thoughts at all, Steve. In fact I will concede that how a person chooses to believe is pivotal. My personal fears for the Martial Arts world is that it may slip, possibly is slipping, into little more than "Martial Theatre" or "martial-themed business".

I will probably get roasted as an anachronist who is out of all touch with modern realities in which case I ask only a moment to don my Asbestos "union suit" before it happens. In the meantime let me point out that just within the pages of this thread alone we are seeing the hallmarks of such deterioration.

Fact is that the Shaolin Temple---technically a system of temples across ancient China--- are no long centers of contemplative Buddhist practice and guidance, if they still exist at all.

Fact is that almost noone still practices the training originally ascribed to the temple system so as to safe-guard their communities, families and livelihoods.

Fact is that without appealing to the more pedestrian thinking of the average consumer these practices would probably disappear completely as they have occasionally in the past.

I personally object to practices being represented as though they reflect some unaltered version of ancient traditions as there is ample evidence that this is simply not the case and that the. If people want to practice arcane movements, dress-up in exotic clothes and travel to distant lands I have no problems with that. Just don't tell that what is happening is anything other than theatrical events promoted to garner the tourist's dollars, 'kay?

Best Wishes,

Bruce
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  #51  
Old 07-Jun-2011, 02:41 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce W Sims View Post
I don't dispute your thoughts at all, Steve. In fact I will concede that how a person chooses to believe is pivotal. My personal fears for the Martial Arts world is that it may slip, possibly is slipping, into little more than "Martial Theatre" or "martial-themed business".

I will probably get roasted as an anachronist who is out of all touch with modern realities in which case I ask only a moment to don my Asbestos "union suit" before it happens. In the meantime let me point out that just within the pages of this thread alone we are seeing the hallmarks of such deterioration.

Fact is that the Shaolin Temple---technically a system of temples across ancient China--- are no long centers of contemplative Buddhist practice and guidance, if they still exist at all.

Fact is that almost noone still practices the training originally ascribed to the temple system so as to safe-guard their communities, families and livelihoods.

Fact is that without appealing to the more pedestrian thinking of the average consumer these practices would probably disappear completely as they have occasionally in the past.

I personally object to practices being represented as though they reflect some unaltered version of ancient traditions as there is ample evidence that this is simply not the case and that the. If people want to practice arcane movements, dress-up in exotic clothes and travel to distant lands I have no problems with that. Just don't tell that what is happening is anything other than theatrical events promoted to garner the tourist's dollars, 'kay?

Best Wishes,

Bruce
Thanks, Bruce. I agree whole-heartedly that to "dress-up" something as what it isn't & try to pull it over peoples eyes, especially when people give so much of themselves to the Arts, is wrong. I still dont think we are talking about the same thing, though. The "face" that we see is exactly that, a face to show off to the world but beyond the skin there's some soul. I think we have to put this one in the "agree to disagree" box. haha. Thanks.
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  #52  
Old 07-Jun-2011, 02:56 PM
Bruce W Sims Bruce W Sims is offline
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Originally Posted by SteveGTKF View Post
Thanks, Bruce. I agree whole-heartedly that to "dress-up" something as what it isn't & try to pull it over peoples eyes, especially when people give so much of themselves to the Arts, is wrong. I still dont think we are talking about the same thing, though. The "face" that we see is exactly that, a face to show off to the world but beyond the skin there's some soul. I think we have to put this one in the "agree to disagree" box. haha. Thanks.
Fair enough..... many thanks.

Best Wishes,

Bruce
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  #53  
Old 24-Jul-2011, 10:49 PM
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black male looking to be a monk

im a p.o.s from america who has no money but still has internet access somehow and i want to leave this country to become a monk. is that even possible for a 24 year old african american to become a monk nowadays? if so, can anyone guide me, any help would be much appreciated. btw... i believe shrooms are the answer to being in control of your own energy. in COMPLETE control. i believe i have the answer, i just need more knowledge.
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  #54  
Old 25-Jul-2011, 12:35 AM
Bruce W Sims Bruce W Sims is offline
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im a p.o.s from america who has no money but still has internet access somehow and i want to leave this country to become a monk. is that even possible for a 24 year old african american to become a monk nowadays? if so, can anyone guide me, any help would be much appreciated. btw... i believe shrooms are the answer to being in control of your own energy. in COMPLETE control. i believe i have the answer, i just need more knowledge.
Yes, it is very possible. You may want to examine the matter of inter-relating Buddhist thought with your value system to make sure there is a goodness of fit. Being a monk is not exactly like what one sees in the media or even what one sees in the touring groups. Just a thought.

Best Wishes,

Bruce
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  #55  
Old 25-Jul-2011, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Def clip View Post
im a p.o.s from america who has no money but still has internet access somehow and i want to leave this country to become a monk. is that even possible for a 24 year old african american to become a monk nowadays? if so, can anyone guide me, any help would be much appreciated. btw... i believe shrooms are the answer to being in control of your own energy. in COMPLETE control. i believe i have the answer, i just need more knowledge.
If you are speaking of becoming a Shaolin Monk, then you may have issues with China and the Chinese culture.

If you are speaking of becoming a Buddhist monk, you have a better chance
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....... for what its worth is to keep it real, martial arts are not always about fighting at all, even when your sparring. Sometimes its just about fitness and learning some technique. .
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  #56  
Old 25-Jul-2011, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Def clip View Post
im a p.o.s from america who has no money but still has internet access somehow and i want to leave this country to become a monk.

Why? What are your specific reasons and have you thought them through? What specifically attracts you?

Quote:
is that even possible for a 24 year old african american to become a monk nowadays?
Absolutely...the question "why?" still applies though

Quote:
btw... i believe shrooms are the answer to being in control of your own energy.
As in MAGIC ones? I think you will have a hard time reconciling that with being a monk.

Being in tune with yourself is something you can ultimately develop on your own...if you need a "dose" to do this you have mastered nothing

Quote:
in COMPLETE control.
sure.............

i believe i have the answer, i just need more knowledge. [/QUOTE]

Your cup will need to be emptied - I can tell that from just one post
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Hannibal He is a cannibal. Literally. He will eat you alive with words. He lives in Canada, 40 years old and I am sure he's single. No woman would ever want him
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  #57  
Old 25-Jul-2011, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Def clip View Post
im a p.o.s from america who has no money but still has internet access somehow and i want to leave this country to become a monk. is that even possible for a 24 year old african american to become a monk nowadays? if so, can anyone guide me, any help would be much appreciated. btw... i believe shrooms are the answer to being in control of your own energy. in COMPLETE control. i believe i have the answer, i just need more knowledge.
I think you will be surprised about those shrooms...
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  #58  
Old 26-Jul-2011, 12:33 AM
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I think you will be surprised about those shrooms...
Perhaps why the motivation to become a monk
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....... for what its worth is to keep it real, martial arts are not always about fighting at all, even when your sparring. Sometimes its just about fitness and learning some technique. .
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  #59  
Old 26-Oct-2014, 05:52 AM
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<< to say that not all Buddhist monks are required to be celibate... but it's a bit of a non-issue as being a gymnastic actor or martial artist who performs for tourists is, under any definition, not a monk and this is what many of those at the present day Shaolin site undeniably are.>>

So then you are saying:
Persons who live at the temple and cater to tourists while perhaps being Buddhists are not "true" shao lin monks or priests? That there are also students/disciples at the old temple who train without commercial or public involvement. These are considered valid (I think?)
In all cases, you have postulated that because the old temple is open for tours, Shao lin has ceased to be a living, continuing line.
I think you have thrown the baby out with the bath water - although I shy of the analogy, if every burned Franciscan monastery and murdered Franciscan meant the end of the order, it would have perished in Francis' lifetime.
To put the spirit and life of shao lin in the building is exactly "tourist" thought. If that were so, shao lin alive and well as long as someone paints the building and repairs the roof.
In every destruction and in every age shao lin have been driven out and have ventured out. The "diaspora" of shao lin monasticism has been going on for some time.
In the last century, my master grew up in Taiwan not hunan and for 40 years he passed the way here in the US. There are plenty of others too. Some of them are well known.
As to these associated with the hunan temple now? I am sure they know the difference and besides, even now in China shao lin is a restricted, monitored situation. They had better keep the true training in back because the chinese government since the last emperor has considered any shao lin priest a real threat. If China were to invade the us or perhaps Russia, both would squash free shao lin quickly, either reducing it to feckless public wushu dancing or eradicating it entirely on a grudge.
Next, you will tell me a man disguised as a Kozak can not possibly be shao lin, when it may well be the only way someday that there is one?
But, there do indeed remain shao lin on the line and may heaven and kinder fortune grant it always be so.
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  #60  
Old 26-Oct-2014, 08:31 AM
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If China were to invade the us or perhaps Russia, both would squash free shao lin quickly, either reducing it to feckless public wushu dancing or eradicating it entirely on a grudge.
Quoted for stupidity.
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