Olympic TKD musings

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Smitfire, Aug 19, 2016.

  1. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    So here are some musings on the current Olympic TKD.

    I don't like the miss-matched uniform colours. Makes the whole affair look messy IMHO. More like a training session than a proper bout. White tops, blue and red hogu and helmets, big splashy logos, multicoloured trousers. I'd prefer whole colour doboks. They probably don't have to all be white all the time but the trousers and tops should match.

    I quite like the octagonal ring to make it different to boxing or judo rings although it's a bit too UFC I think. I think make it round. Maybe with a feint yin-yang symbol that divides the fighters?

    The level of contact required to score a head kick IS ridiculous. I've seen scoring kicks that landed with just the last bit of toenail on the head guard where the foot is barely moving with any power in the first place. That's not a kick IMHO. Supposedly full-contact WTF sparring ends up being less contact than forms of semi-contact sparring.

    Why not just add in face punching now? The combatants are already padded up almost completely. Make the gloves more padded and score controlled punches to the head? Reflect the more holistic nature of TKD and, I think, make it more exciting, more relate-able as a combat sport to the general public and open up access to other TKD exponents that punch to the head in their format.

    Stop with the chop kick and the push kick names. Turning kick is bad enough. Everyone else calls them axe kicks and side kicks.

    Anything else?
     
  2. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    I watched the Jade Jones match and to be honest it just confirms my thoughts that the Olympics tends to ruin sports.. What I watched didn't really make any sense. Fighters with one leg up and the opponents hand on their leg trying to prevent what? a kick with no power? Can't see how this is any more than tig by another name. The bad calls in boxing (Paddy Power even paid out on a Coghlan win even though the judges gave the fight to the other guy) and what passes as a TKD match certainly doesn't help encourage people to watch/participate in sports does it?

    LFD
     
  3. Unreal Combat

    Unreal Combat Valued Member

    If they add punches to the face they may as well just call it Kickboxing.
     
  4. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    Before I write something I want to point out something important: I don't really know the rules (I'm no TKDin after all) and I only watched one fight!
    So this won't qualify as an expert opinion at all, but only a short brainstorming event.

    So, to start:

    I don't like the electronics.
    The fight I watched was on youtube and the fight itself began only after five minutes, because the electronics wouldn't work properly.
    That was a bit annoying.

    What was more annoying: The wests didn't catch everything.
    Even with untrained eyes I saw at least two hits (with the fists) that didn't count but should have (according to a trainer of mine; I asked him) and one kick wouldn't be counted as well - that was those *I* would notice as someone who doesn't know, what I have simply overseen.


    Olympic TKD should be WTF and therefore full contact, right?
    To me it looked a lot like pointfighting without interceptions all the time.
    The fighters would for 90% of the time use their front leg to "touch" each other a bit (I don't feel like calling most of it kicks, if you know what I mean. As late of dinner said: It is weird to see, how they can deflect a kick with hardly more then a flick of the wrist).

    Only one of the two fighters used her fists (I know, it's a known problem in TKD, just like cover. But I blame the rules for that). And pointed that way - when the electronics were kind enough to count that.

    In the end there were some nice things to see and the fighter won with a spinning kick - and that action was even the most impressive in the whole fight.
    So obviously they *can* do it, if they want to!

    But instead they jump up and down like frogs on speed and grace each other a little with the front leg.


    So, yeah, I was a bit disappointed and can see now even clearer what one of my coaches means, when he says "It's not fun anymore" (He's a former competitor).

    I'm afraid it's the same as with Judo: The Olympics ruin it :(
    I hope Karate won't be next.
    And everyone who likes BJJ should consider, if they really want it to become olympic as well; I read creepily amounts of statements, who great that would be.
    No.....
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2016
  5. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Yeah, I'm watching the men's right now.

    It should be called foot touch. This is not a combat sport. im sure it didn't even look this pathetic 8 years ago.
     
  6. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    I don't know what judo you guys were watching, but the quality of judo this year was awesome. The rule changes achieved their goal - to give us a dynamic spectator sport.

    I don't think the rules in TKD are achieving that at the moment. It's not exciting, it's regularly confusing, and (lay) people struggle to map their mental model of what kicking should look like and what scores in a TKD not.

    As for boxing. Let's just stop calling that a sporting contest.
     
  7. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    The judo was very cool. I enjoyed watching.

    I wish I'd have caught the Greco. Did anyone catch that?

    I tried watching the boxing but I got bored... I've never been able to get into boxing as a spectator.
     
  8. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I only caught a couple of bouts but one was won by an accumulat6ion of fouls after a few minutes of grip fighting and shin kicking to avoid passivity. Perhaps I just caught a bad bout?

    Similarly some of the TKD was decided on who fell over the most or went out of the ring the most rather than who kicked the other person the most.
     
  9. bigreddog

    bigreddog Valued Member

    I enjoy WTF TKD but was surprised by the low levels of contact - when I did it, it was like being hit with a battering ram (hardest kick I have ever taken on the pads was TKD, and I speak as someone who has eaten a lot of muay thai shots)

    That said - all contests are about working inside a ruleset. And the athletes adapt and specialise. I like TKD as a sport just like I like fencing - it's not a swordfight, its a sport. You find a skillset you enjoy and find a ruleset you can play in. You can level similar accusations against BJJ, boxing and MMA (bring back PRIDE rules!) - none of these are a 'real fight' nor should they be

    And well done to Jade Jones for showing dominance in the sport!
     
  10. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    That's pretty much what I meant, when I have written "I blame the rules".

    I don't think it's a bad thing when you advocate a sport as a sport and not self-defense focused.
    So I'm totally fine with sports being treated like that.

    What I think is a shame, is that the Olympics nearly castrate some of the sports, just to make it more... I don't know, really.
    Likable for people who usually don't watch it?


    Sidenote: I liked the Judo fight of Malzahl where she got chokes out!
    Good of the ref not to break up the fight, due to "nothing happening/ inactivity" when she was in the choke!
     
  11. liero

    liero Valued Member

    Few little things.

    Every Olympics I've watched I've commented that the TKD is of a pretty unimpressive level. There are always the odd good fights though. It seems like when you put the best in the world together in high stakes games no one wants to make a high risk high reward action because they know the other person has the skill to shut them down.

    They tried everything! They reduced the size of the court, and shortened the rounds after Sydney. It was still people trading one back leg turning kick per round.

    After Athens, in Beijing, they increased the points for all the dynamic kicks (they may have done this for Athens also, I can't remember). It was a little more exciting but still boring by many accounts.

    Then there was a whole bunch of scandal about the points system, so leading into London they introduced the electronics, put video review in, and added even higher scores for the head shot/spin kicks. To reduce any "unfairness" they also added in the touch head kick rule.

    After London they further changed things, no more touching the floor AT ALL with anything other than the feet. Seems to make sense but basically means no one will throw TKD's famous spinning kicks for fear of reprisal when they are pushed over by a sneaky low cut kick. And another new change is the "octogon" to push the fighting activity more.

    What's the result?

    Electronic foot tag, where competitors desperately try not to let their faces get clipped by weak jabs. It's still boring where the worlds top competitors battle it out to see who can knock the other one over more, or out of the ring more, without getting penalised for pushing or not fighting.

    Every few fights someone incredible comes on and tears it up, but unfortunately the crowd and the online spectators have fallen asleep.

    The dynamic footwork is lost, because the competitors can barely move around. The high power kicks to the body are quickly blocked by arms, and the little tap tap to the face beats it. Powerful head kicks are too risky because they can be knocked over.

    By trying to shift the rules, they have limited a lot of what makes TKD an impressive out range battle.

    I'm enjoying the -80 fights tonight because I'd like to see either Steven Lopez win gold, or Lutalo and Aaron Cook battle out in the final. The heavier weight men still put some good fighting in which is good.

    As for the uniforms. GB and Thailand have some great decals, but it looks like they spoke to the same designer. And as for Chinas bright yellow...I wonder if they invested a few million dollars in research to determine the colour most likely to put off the opposition in the match?
     
  12. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Been pretty disappointed with TKD as a whole at this Olympics, but the last 20 seconds of Lutalo Muhammad's semi-final just then had me on the edge of my seat. Another GB fighter in a gold medal match!
     
  13. PointyShinyBurn

    PointyShinyBurn Valued Member

    High level Greco is generally very dull, but the freestyle has been great so far. And tomorrow it's Abdulrashid Sadulaev in the -85kg; anyone who has the faintest interest in combat sports needs to be watching this guy.

    P.s. All the videos are on the BBC iPlayer if you put "Olympic Wrestling" in the search.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2016
  14. Sandy

    Sandy Valued Member

    I agree with Smitfire: why not allow punches to the head? ITF tae kwon do permits this, so it's obviously possible in a TKD competition. It seems very strange that punches are only allowed to the body in WTF and Olympic TKD.

    Nonetheless, a massive well done to Jade Jones and fingers crossed for Lutalo Muhammad's final!
     
  15. Kwajman

    Kwajman Penguin in paradise....

    I don't even watch Olympic TKD anymore. With the sine wave and all it's just ridiculous. It should not be in the Olympics next time. Four years ago the staff at my school taped it and we played it at a party, got quite a few laughs.
     
  16. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Sine Wave is ITF TKD, not Olympic TKD.
     
  17. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    You didn't miss much the Greco was born as hell, freestyle has been much better.

    The judo was ok but for the most part but it's like Greco the rules are so restrictive it makes it hard to get a really good attack off, and whilst there was some good ground work shown I hate people turtling and being totally defensive in the ground without being penalised.

    As for the TKD, I find it about as interesting as rhythm gymnastics, it's ruleset have it so far removed from an actual fight as to not make it worth watching to be honest
     
  18. holyheadjch

    holyheadjch Valued Member

    The judo rules will be evaluated again, now the Olympics are over, so who knows, maybe someone at the IOC will comment on the overly defensive groundwork and the IJF will add some kind of penalty.

    I'd love to see a penalty for running away on the mat. Or double the penalty if it's a blatant attempt to run down the clock.

    The thing that annoyed me most about the TKD is that some fights have been good, which means it's not the sport itself or the capabilities of the athletes, but the ruleset that is holding the athletes back.
     
  19. Late for dinner

    Late for dinner Valued Member

    http://bbc.in/2b6jEnU

    This is the reason why you never turn your back, put down your hands or stop until the referee calls matte'.

    Poor sod.

    LFD
     
  20. Anth

    Anth Daft. Supporter

    Yep, I remember watching the 2012 Olympic TKD and thinking "someone will lose a fight for celebrating before the ref stops the fight." I thought the same when watching Jade Jones' fight in the final. Sure enough, Mohammad celebrates too early and gets tagged on the side of the head. I don't cheer peoples' misery very often (apart from footballers) but I did laugh and say "well nobody in Olympic TKD will do that one again!"

    Saying that, I'd love to see the winning competitors penalised for disrespect for running around the area cheering before the ref has ended the fight. Score the winning point, keep it cool, bow out, shake hands then run around like a six year old on cherryade.
     

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