Am I eating enough on days I train?

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by Morik, Oct 25, 2016.

  1. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    So I tried out Muay Thai last night. I liked it and will go back.
    I got a headache afterwards and it got worse when I lay down to go to bed, and my head felt hot.
    I think I'm having enough water--my pee stays pretty clear all day. (Had ~140oz of water yesterday.)

    It may be that I am not used to that level of exertion, though I was able to do the whole class. I have been training JJJ 3-4 times a week (1 hour), so that helped me get to a reasonable fitness level to make it through 2 hours of Muay Thai.

    I'm 280lbs. Online calculators, when I put in that I'm moderately active (3-5 moderate sports/exercise sessions per week), say I should eat ~2800 calories to lose 2lb/week.

    To maintain weight I would need ~3800 per day.
    I eat ~1900-2100 per day.

    Sample day:

    Breakfast:
    luna bar (190 cal, it has 9g protein, 6g fat, 26g carbs)

    Lunch:
    2 cups white rice, 1/2 cup chicken, 1/2 cup cod, beans, various fruits & vegetables in a bowl (pineapple, kimchee, onions, etc).
    Ate about 70% of it. (guesstimating 450 cal)

    1 bao bun with pork belly (~150 cal)

    Snack before muay thai (~2 hours before):
    1/4 cup cubed turkey, 6 cherry tomatoes, 1/4 red bell pepper, 1/4 cup of carrots.
    (guesstimating 150 cal)

    Second snack before muay thai (~1 hour before):
    Fig & blueberry bar (whole wheat giant fig newton, basically. 180 cal, 5g fat, 4g protein, 34g carbs)

    Dinner after muay thai:
    spinach leaves, ground turkey with riced cauliflower (~1-1.5 cups), cheese (maybe 3-4 tablespoons), diced tomatoes (4 tablespoons), sour cream (maybe 2.5-3 tablespoons), crushed tortilla chips (maybe 1/2-1 cup)
    (Not really sure on calories for this one... maybe 600-700?)

    Snack before bed: 1.5 bananas (~150 cal)


    Is that enough on days where I train? Trying to figure out if it was "my body isn't used to this yet" vs "I didn't get enough fuel".
     
  2. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I'd eat a bit more before your training (1.5 - 2hrs)

    you want a decent carb load before the session. something like a nice chicken noodle with veg or brown rice.
     
  3. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Oh I also try to eat just what is available at work during the day, for convenience. (I work at a company that feeds its employees all the time.)
    If necessary I can bring my own stuff, but would prefer to find something they have that I can use.

    Would something like granola + (skim? 2%? Whole?) milk work? Or breakfast cereals of various sorts? kashi heart to heart, raisin bran, etc.

    I often have something like a tropical nut & fruit mix ~2 hours before exercising for the protein & carbs (I didn't in that sample day, which was what I ate yesterday).
     
  4. Theidiot

    Theidiot New Member

    If you are eating about half the calories you need to maintain your weight, then you will at some point in the not too distant future find yourself in hospital.

    I found this out the hard way.

    Your body goes into starvation mode. It needs glucose. If it can't get it from your diet, it will manufacture it. It will make it first from carbs in your diet, then from the protein and fat. If it's still not enough then it will release it from stored fat BUT it will also break down muscle tissue to pilfer what it needs to make glucose.

    Glucose is the priority. It fuels everything. This is basically your body trying to stay alive, unable to maintain itself.

    So the protein you eat is just expensive carbs when in starvation mode. Not only are your muscles not being developed, they are being lost.

    But it gets worse. We all know that protein is needed for cell repair. It is less well known that it is also vital for bile production. Your bile duct should be a one way system. This is maintained by their being a higher pressure at one end than the other, and this higher pressure is maintained by bile production, which requires spare protein. When it can't maintain that pressure, there is nothing to stop gastric acid from heading up into the gall bladder. They thought I was having a heart attack when this happened to me.

    There is good reason why every credible expert recommends weight loss should not be more than one or at max two pounds per week. It's because they don't want you to kill yourself.

    The headaches by the way are probably due to a mix of lack of nutrients reaching the brain, and an excess of ketones, the stuff that breaks down fat, I'm your bloodstream.
     
  5. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    FWIW my muscles seem to keep getting stronger & more defined over time, though my weight isn't changing very quickly. I.e., in my (naive, non-expert) observations, I seem to be building more muscle & losing fat while slowly creeping down in weight.

    I think I'd find it pretty hard to get another 600-800 calories in per day unless it was with junk food...
    (The way I got this heavy was with lots and lots of junk food.)
    EDIT: Oh except maybe protein supplements... I guess I could have protein powder or something?

    Also I used to get similar headaches at JJJ during the first week or two when I started, but then they stopped. So I was leaning towards "this is just me not being used to exertion", but then when I did the calorie calculation I saw that I'm a good way under the 2lb/week loss rate...
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  6. Theidiot

    Theidiot New Member

    If you need 3800 to maintain your weight (I'd check that calc again because that's a lot), and you are consuming around 2000, then you have a calorie deficit of 1800 calories per day. That's 12600 per week. A pound of fat is roughly 3500 cals. 12600 divided by 3500 equals 3.6 pounds that you should be losing per week if all calculations are right.
     
  7. TwirlinMerlin

    TwirlinMerlin Valued Member

    Do you already monitor your blood pressure? If not, get a cuff so you can check it when you have these headaches.
     
  8. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Well so by a BMR calculator not taking exercise into account, I need 2493.6 calories to maintain. (per http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator)
    280 lb, 6'0", 34 yo, male

    I used https://www.healthstatus.com/calculate/calories-to-lose-weight for the calculation including exercise. I chose "moderately active" which they describe as "Moderatetely active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week)"
    (I train MA 3-4 times per week, weight train 1x/week. Going forward that might be more like 3 times per week for muay thai (2hrs each) and 1-2x /week for weight training.)

    Their result for me:

    Calories to Lose Results
    To stay at the same weight, you would need approximately 3836.87 calories a day (this is your BMR).
    Your minimum calorie need is 1800 calories. To lose weight, choose an option from the table below. One pound of weight is lost for every 3000 calories reduced or burned.

    Weight Loss Table

    Calorie Reduction from BMR Calories per day
    500 Calories Less (approx 1 lb/week) 3336.87
    1000 Calories (approx 2 lb/week) 2836.87
    15% less 3261.34
    20% less 3069.50
    25% less 2877.65
    30% less 2685.81
     
  9. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I don't monitor it. That is a good idea. I've ordered a cheapish one (~$30) on amazon just now.

    If my blood pressure does come up as low, what would I do at the time to mitigate that?
    In the future it sounds like I would want to make sure I increase my caloric intake prior to hard exercise if my blood pressure is dropping later?
    (Or would it be too high rather than too low? I am not well versed in medical stuff.)
     
  10. Theidiot

    Theidiot New Member

    If your blood pressure is dropping a bit low, short of drinking more water, with electrolytes, I'm not sure there's much you can do. Low blood pressure usually presents as dizziness and in extreme cases, confusion.

    Apparently there is a recognised condition of exertion related headaches. I think I get them. But to be honest I'd consult a doctor just to be sure it's nothing to worry about, which it probably isn't, but it's always good to be sure.
     
  11. TwirlinMerlin

    TwirlinMerlin Valued Member

    Nice. Good job ordering a cuff. Because of the headaches, body weight, and possible over excursion I'd lean towards high blood pressure. But I'm not a professional. If it's low or high you want to ease back on the training temporarily and see a doctor so he can help you get it in check.
    Of course, you don't want to rule out anything else. It's just a guess based on your headaches, weight, and hard physical training.
     
  12. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    If you normally train an hour of jjj, and you've just done 2 hours of MT, you definitely wont be used to it.

    Also eat bigger portions, carbs before training, meat afterwards.
     
  13. AndrewTheAndroid

    AndrewTheAndroid A hero for fun.

    I think you should see a doctor and get some tests done. I am not saying that because I think something is wrong, I don't, I'm saying it because it's the safest thing to do. One training session isn't enough to cause concern. That being said I think your breakfasts are to small. I also I am somewhat skeptical of online calorie and bmr calculators, I think they are best used as a guideline rather than a hard and fast rule.
     
  14. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Oh the timing of my meals may also be of interest... the reason my breakfast is so small is its just a bit before lunch.

    I get up around 9:30 am, eat breakfast around 10 am, eat lunch around noon, snack at 4pm/5pm, MA training 6-8pm, dinner ~9 or 9:30 pm, pre-bed snack around 12 or 12:30, in bed around 1:15 am.
    (I was previously not getting up til 10:30 am; when I did that I skipped breakfast altogether and just had lunch at noon.)

    On days with no MA training dinner is more like 6:30 or 7pm (I cut back on the afternoon snack but add a snack around 9 or 10 pm)
     

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