Will karate be non-contact in 2020?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by Sandy, Aug 21, 2016.

  1. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I'd also prefer Sanda. That would be amazing too.
     
  2. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    Hard. Just because it's less violent doesn't mean it's easier to excel.

    Soccer is less violent than rugby, but that doesn't mean that it's an easier sport, or that rugby players could manage to get on a national soccer team with their rugby skills.
     
  3. Gunner

    Gunner Valued Member

    The TKD was slightly more interresting than the Judo, but both sucked as a spectator sport.
     
  4. Latikos

    Latikos Valued Member

    It's probably because I know more Judo, but I thought some of it was at least okay.
    Flying armbar attempt in the Olympics? Nothing I would have had expected!

    But I'm still annoyed by going into turtle as soon as they touch the ground.
    It's a shame really.


    The TKD I saw reminded me too much on bunnies on speed.
    I think TKD has so much more to offer than you got to see.
     
  5. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I watched someone win a tkd match in the most ridiculous way. I stopped watching after that. Such a crap sport.
     
  6. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    ridiculous like someone running around a mat with a broken arm to and going on to win the match on points, or ridiculous like losing a match because you crossed your leg over the top of their opponents incorrectly...its all in the eye of the beholder :)
     
  7. Van Zandt

    Van Zandt Mr. High Kick

    Ditto for BJJ. I've seen entire matches at World level spent doing butt scoots and sat in half guard. *Yawn*
     
  8. Poirate

    Poirate New Member

    Therein lies the rub. They are thinking more about winning -- though I dare say in many cases, simply not losing -- than spectacle. To turtle is to avoid losing; current rules allow it, as such turtle they will. Some of those national teams are going to have a rough time on return should they not place well.
     
  9. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    And I don't watch BJJ either, unless it's a match I'm especially interested in the two competitors. Surely you're the same with TKD. Great fun to do and to fight with, boring to watch.
     
  10. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    I tried to catch up on as many Olympic sports as I could this time round. I think more you watch them more you enjoy them, though for a spectator who don't practice the combat sport it might be a struggle.

    Boxing: blatant corruption aside I definetly am better at spotting the technical differences between pro and amateur. I used to think that amateur had more guile because hey had had to contrive cleaner shots score point, but now to my eye it looks rushed. Three times three minute rounds to get all the stuff in? Approach work looks a lot less technical. Also I watched one match where is saw no straight shots! No jabs or nice crosses. Just a guy muscling with (admitedly large) variation of hooks.

    Judo: Always had a fascination with it. The stop start of the turtling on the ground is annoying. That being said the pre-emptive work where they batt away and deny grips as well as sweeps (that look for all the world like hooking kicks) is great to watch and makes me sometimes wince. There is no denying that it's a pressure tested sport to the limit. Much like fencing I suspect is that the pretty and telegenic techniques are rare because of the skill of the competitors. They simply will not allow the opponent to get a perfect sweep or throw in. Every single angle or entry is contested to maximise your chances and ruin your opponents plan.

    Fencing: caught less of my sport this year as it was a case of same old same old. For those who care couple of slight developments could be seen:
    Foil: Men fence futher away using few preparations and absence of blade to make up the distance, women fence further in with more bladework. Not sure why this is happening but suspect it might be to do with difference in explosive speed to bridge the distance gap. It was always there but this year it was more obvious.
    Sabre: utterly broken discipline. There is skill in there ...somewhere...but it's to do with footwork and timing rather than bladework. The worse marches resembled two freight trains crashing into each other. The Aldo Montano match was the worse one.
    Epee: biggest change. Not sure what happened since London 2012, but for fencing spectators the change was obvious. Many matches timed out as no-one got full points. In 10 minute matches many fencers couldn't hit the opponents 15 times. Epee, arguably the purest weapon and closest to a real duel, which was for years a nice mixture of attacking and cagey self preservation, had become incredibly boring to watch. Everyone was disengaging afraid to take the opponents blade. No compound attacks and when they sometimes did it was nearly always a flèche into to the opponent. Something has happened at tactical level because many of these fencers fenced very differently 4 years ago.

    Taekwondo: Always perplexed me why they don't punch "kick/fist way" has very much kick and very little fist. This has probably been done to death on other threads but it still makes me shake my head in bewilderment. There is no denying the skill of the kicks and the excellent timing and distance it takes in scoring a clean kick to the face against an opponent who is trying to ruin your day, as a fencer I appreciate this aspect to the sport as its footwork and distance management is a core skillset, but as a sometime boxer who watches Kickboxers train at my club I struggle to understand why throwing a punch is so tactically disadvantages in TKD that no-one will use it.

    Which brings us to karate. Combat Sports live and die at Olympic participation the IOC's by a number of factor:

    It's got to provide a spectacle for viewers
    Highly skilled athletes at the top of their game
    Wide participation.

    Clearly Sports sometime struggle with this. Fencing may have now wider participation than ever before - an African woman winning the first medal this year, but If sabre is still a spectacle now then it pains me to say I'd rather watch darts at the olympics. Not sure sailing with that yacht thing has wide participation and equestrian? well I'm sure everyone can own a thoroughbred horse.

    This leaves skill then. As they are all skilled athletes in their defined area of skill.
    Shooting might be a quite tight skill set, but I enjoy the is the spectacle it provides. Excellent hand eye co-coordination and accuracy. Taewondo provides footwork, leg kicking flexibility and aggression even if they don't use their fists.

    Karate? Wide participation? Tick! Spectacle? I think so. Perhaps not necessarily for purists martial artists but it's there. The problem is is that it has the provide a skill set rationale that is easy enough for the audience to get, the trick I think is that it may have nothing to do with what conservative karate practitioners think is the 'essential defining characteristic" of Karate. Of course the moment you Sportify a martial art athletes start playing to the rules in order to win, not to maintain a martial consistency.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2016
  11. bigreddog

    bigreddog Valued Member

    The obvious question is whether if karate is successful in Tokyo will TKD stay in....
     
  12. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    Or once we are out of Tokyo in 4 years time will karate be there again?
     
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Supposedly...but really the fighting methods enshrined in kata are different to the fighting methods seen in kumite (in all its various forms).
    They are like two different martial arts cobbled together (mainly because the developers of karate didn't have a good understanding of what was in the kata).
    Most Karate kumite is long range sniping. Whereas kata fighting is more like close and dirty, ripping and smashing.
     
  14. bigreddog

    bigreddog Valued Member

    Yes - I guess my point is that there might only be space for one or the other - for the layperson they will be pretty similar
     
  15. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    I imagine they will go with the established art that's been there for 20 or so years and has the infrastructure in place, I agree they won't want to similar boring arts :evil:
     
  16. liero

    liero Valued Member

    Wheelchair racing was one of the demonstration sports at the Sydney Olympics.
    It was never added in. Not just because of the low participation at grassroots (limited mostly by the fact that able bodied athletes don't jump in a wheelchair often). But also by the sports ability to fund, and shmooze the IOC, and so on.
    I doubt Karate will be added as a sport when they are trying to take sports like wrestling out. It's a one off, homage to Japanese nationalism the same way they could have put sumo in.
     
  17. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I think they should take it back to Greece and add in chariot death races and full contact spear fighting in a loin cloth... discus can stay.
     
  18. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I think they should upgrade modern pentathlon or decathlon. Make it a true warriors test.

    Run 100 metres. Swim 200 metres, Run 5km cross country (maybe some sort of assault course or Ninja warrior course). Long jump. Archery. Javelin. Speed climb a climbing wall. Amateur boxing. Submission grappling. Hema sword fighting of some sort rather than pokey fencing. Maybe some sort of weighted yomp or march over 10km?

    The gold medalist in that event would be the most badass gold medalist of the whole olympics.
     
  19. bigreddog

    bigreddog Valued Member

    There is a military pentathlon of sorts I saw on TV a while back that members of the forces do - obstacle swim, grenade throwing etc. It was indeed badass
     

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