Bench Press Issues

I'm currently in a phase where I'm keeping the weight lifting minimal and focused on gaining strength as I'm losing body fat. It's been working well so far but I'm running into a major issue with bench press and am wondering if anyone might have some insight.

I've never been big into bench press. The most I've been able to press was 275lbs and that was probably around 10 years ago. I've never really gave a damn about my chest. That said I've been working on bench press this last year as I've been getting back into fitness.

My routine is simple, 5x5 going up 10lb increments each set, and the first set goes up 5lbs after completing the 5x5 at the initial starting weight twice. So for example I started doing 5x5 with 165lbs on the first set, and as the sets go on I would finish at 205lbs. Currently I am at a starting weight of 175 lbs, with the last set ending at 215 lbs.

The issue I'm having is with my shoulders. The weight I'm doing isn't really heavy as much as it's hard, and most of that is attributed to poor experience with the lift. I injured myself bench pressing 225lbs a few months ago where my shoulder popped out of socket and put me out for a good month. As I've been increasing the weight in my bench press, I'm feeling a lot of strain on my shoulders (specifically my left) where it feels like the same "out of socket" thing is about to happen. The issue doesn't feel like the shoulder itself, but more around the scapula and the top end of the humerus bone. I'm looking for advice on what the issue may be here, because I really have no clue.

As far as my form goes, I shifted to a narrower grip that I hoped would prevent the shoulders from being an issue but it doesn't seem to have helped. I bring the bar down to where my solar plexus is, approximately 2 inches below the nipples.

I'm guessing this is an issue with the rotator cuffs or some supporting muscle group, and I've started doing band work for the cuffs. I honesty have no clue in this area. Any help is appreciated : P

 

Check your form and grip maybe? Or visit the doctors/physio and get that shoulder checked might be an underlying issue or some nerve damage from before which is agitated by the bench. By form I mean check where the bar is, your grip the fluidity of your motion. You may need to work on more mobility for your shoulder/s and work on specific exercies for that before focusing on weights which are more of a struggle for you. At what RM are you lifting currently? You say you start at 175lbs, is that 50% of your ORM? 70?

 

I'm pretty sure my form is good. My grip is narrower than usual to include more triceps, so about two inches wider than shoulder width. Elbows are tucked in, retracting scapulas during lift, bar is balanced during the concentric and eccentric portions of the lift.

I couldn't tell you what my ORM is. I don't max out in anything due to working out alone and not caring how much I can lift something once. I can tell you I can bench 175 for 15-20 reps though. I can probably do 205lbs for 8-10 reps.

I literally have no issue bench pressing until I get up into the 200's, and then it starts feeling like some supporting element is not able to handle the weight. It's also only with a barbell. I don't have this issue with dumbbell presses. :dunno:

Edit: My rep range may seem strange for a 5x5 program geared towards strength. As an aside, I've only been getting back into lifting weights for the last 5-6 months. I have lingering issues with my neck/upper back that I'm sorting out along the way, so that hinders getting under heavy weight in all my lifts that would usually be appropriate for a 5x5 program. I'm also expending a crap ton of calories throughout the day due to fat loss goals, which can make pushing heavy weight difficult although doable. I basically started with weight I knew I could do, and after a three month period (end of month one now) the weight I'll be pushing in my lifts will probably be 20-30 lbs heavier than where I could have started if I wasn't dealing with the neck/upper back issues and high calorie expenditure. Ironically enough, bench press is the only major compound lift I'm doing that doesn't inflame my upper back/neck issues xD

 

Yeah, if scapulae are properly tucked, I'd look into a variety of pulling and rotator cuff work (which is basically what made my own left humerus stop popping out of its socket for good).

I've personally found that the usual band and plate/light db rotator cuff work bores the everliving bejeezus out of me, so I never do it, BUT you can force the cuff muscles to fire and do work by simply accumulating time under tension in a controlled fashion through big ranges of motion. A variety of heavy strict "big" pulls (chins, rows, etc) for strength numbers, and lighter strict but less stable exercises (pullovers, toes to bar, rollouts, raises, BTN pulldowns) for very high (strict) reps should work, the only trick being that you need to mobilize the GH joint under load (the cuff will act as a dynamic stabilizer rather than as a rotator proper, which would be the function of its individual muscles firing in isolation). Also, overhead work with active shoulder/shrugging lockout, such as strict OHP, strict BTN press, OH squats, muscle snatch, cuban press, and windmills/TGUs.

BTN presses and pulldowns to be performed with scapulae together as in a bench press, and leaning forwards to permit a straight bar path with no torso angle change, ideally (so the entire movement happens at the shoulder joint itself, forcing the cuff muscles to fire without the forces at the joint changing suddenly from the scapulae themselves moving)

 

Something like clubbell or chi-ish work done entirely strict rather than swinging the implement (your mind is filthy) could also be of use, but will need to be very light and for very high reps, same as the lighter pulls (think sets of 10-20 strict). Could be done with a dumbbell loaded only on one side, if you have sturdy collars, else Mitch's written a guide here on MAP on making DIY chi-ishi, which I believe you might find an entertaining project

 

I did some of those to fix my rotator issues with pulling motions xD. I was seeing a physical therapist for a while which basically resulted in "retract your scapulas in an isometric hold" randomly throughout the day, and keeping them retracted/stable during work. It fixed a lot of issues and allowed me to deadlift and do pull-ups again. I still randomly retract them for isometric holds, and nearly every time my back pops and clicks which is funky.

I've been doing the band work for a couple days now and all kinds of things are moving around, some of it painful. It's important to note (I think) that the discomfort or pain doesn't happen during exercise, but instead while I'm resting. I'm pretty confident it's associated with the upper back/neck issues I have, and things repositioning to work differently (correctly) after so long. Turns out laying on your back for a year and a half with your neck craned up isn't very good for you xD.

I think I might start working on overhead squat form with the bar. I always got a great pull in the problem area when doing them in the past, so it's probably something I should start incorporating.

I've been looking at rotator cuff videos all morning. I found this one funny. He emphasizes most people will not need internal rotation stretching, then goes to show how to stretch external rotation. I try it out and don't really feel anything. He then shows how to stretch internal rotation and I try it and holy bejeezus that's part of my issue

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL3cIDFUafU"]Rotator Cuff Stretches (The Ones You REALLY Need!) - YouTube[/ame]

 

The only thing I understood in that entire paragraph was the "swinging your implement" . . . . wait . . . "the" implement. My bad.

 

Take a vid of your form so you can analyse it yourself, you may be doing things without realising. (for the longest time I was pushing slightly higher with my right arm).

Reason why I asked about ORM and why it's important it's how you work out what weight you SHOULD be working out with in a rep range. And tbh if you can do 15-20 reps of a certain weight, I wouldn't start with that at all. I'd go way higher (but I understand you're having shoulder issues) Due to you doing closer grip for triceps, that may be putting more strain on your shoulder and aggravating it. I would minimum give the bench a rest for a week or so, and work fully on mobilty for it just to make sure you don't cause any injuries.

You aren't doing 15-20 reps are you with 175lbs? Cos if that's how you warmup or something that could definetly cause issues.

 

1: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIEOWh87ahY"]10 Best Indian Club Exercises - YouTube[/ame] + [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HEWa9qudHc"]Morio Higaonna: chi ishi - YouTube[/ame] + http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89777
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Re: internal rotation: humeral IR is variably effected by a lot of muscles, such as: pectoralis major, latissimus dorsi, teres major, anterior deltoid, subscapularis, and probably a couple others contributing as well. Pecs and lats = huge and attach far from the humeral head = potentially very destabilizing; anterior delt = smaller, attaches even further from the shoulder = still potentially destabilizing; teres major = smaller, attaches far from the joint, originates in the shoulder blade = less destabilizing; subscapularis = tiny and part of the rotator cuff (sorta like a more proximal mini-pec) = stabilizer! Therefore you could maybe look into doing the thing with an eye towards traditionally lat-focused movements (ie pulling towards the hips and lever-type motions).

Try this, and see what happens: https://youtu.be/pgL8GkzpNsw?t=510

If that sort of stuff does the trick, pullover variants and strict rows touching at the abdomen should probably become your friends

 

The rep range is where I want it to be with consistent increases every two workouts. I've only been going for a month, and it's supposed to start as light as it is. I understand the concept of ORM and used it often when I was learning to lift weights. Now I go more by the feel of things. I think you missed my edit though. I warm up with 135lbs and pushups as well as some shoulder mobility exercises.

If I take a vid it will be for you, so you'll have to get your Crisco out. I've always been really strict with form and have put extra emphasis on it, which is part of the reason for starting the thread. I KNOW it's not my form, there's something structural going on and I'm confident it stems from other issues I've had, I just need some help locating it : P.

Hell, the only reason I'm even doing bench press is because I've been doing sets of 10 with 70lb dumbell, inclined bench press and quite frankly it's starting to become a workout just getting the weight to my shoulders xD.

I need a workout robot to hand me the weights. : /

 

So it's been about a week since posting this and I've done two bench press workouts since. One involved doing 10x10 at 135lbs to take a break from pushing heavy weight but continuing to strengthen the neuromuscular connections for the movement with extra emphasis on correct technique both going slow and being explosive, and then the second workout finishing with a set of five at 215lbs before I bump up in weight by 5lbs in all my sets.

During this time I've been paying a lot of attention to both stretching (holy wow has this been painful) and band work that is rotator cuff specific. The rotator cuff work hasn't been workout themed as much as it has been physical therapy themed, so I've done it with quite a bit of frequency and this is what I'm finding:

The 10x10 workout was at 135 lbs and was obviously extremely easy although tiring. I paid specific attention to contracting my scapulas and found that sometimes my left will feel like it's flaying out a bit. So I've started paying extra attention to that during the lifts. I also did 10x2 pullups (keeping reps super low due to upper back issues that get inflamed, I can maybe get 8 currently, so far away from the 30 I used to do :cry

After that workout the center of my upperback and muscles under the scapula were super tight, so that's a good thing as there's clearly something going on in that area that's getting worked with all the stuff I'm focusing on.

The last bench day I still felt a little weakness in the left shoulder with some minimal clicking, but overall it felt a lot more sturdy than before. So I'mma' keep going with what I'm doing but I'm going to say I'm accepting the fact that I will not be bench pressing any impressive numbers any time soon, and it's not going to be a big lift I'm super good at. I'm also going to include a 10x10 day going up 5lbs every time I bump up in weight on the heavy days just to strengthen the movement through repetition.

I'll probably due an update or two as the weeks go on, but that's what's going on currently.

 

You are only 28. If you intend to continue your training when you are 70 years old (for the next 42 years), you may need to consider the following.

- Don't injury yourself through training.
- Train because you like to train, not because you force yourself to train.
- Less weight with more reps will be better.

 

While I think you may have missed some things about me through various thread in MAP, as well as my current approach to training now, this is spot on advice

 

Doesn't sound weird to me. I'm not super dedicated to lifting, but when I do use the bench press, I know that if I use a narrow grip it aggravates an old rotator cuff tear (labrum tear) in my left shoulder. Weird thing is, both a narrow grip and tucking in my elbows from any width of grip hurts my shoulder. Sounds backwards but I swear I can feel my shoulder ready to give when I use the recommended form of elbows tucked in with anything over 200 lbs. I just try to listen to my body now that I'm older and my body tells me to use a grip that feels natural. It's somewhere between wide and narrow with the elbows where they want to be.

 

Good sir, it might not sound weird to you but trust me, it's weird! The majority of shoulder issues involving bench press tend to be the exact opposite of what we are experiencing xD. For example, most of the tightness and strength issues is coming from internal rotation of the cuffs, and not external which isn't the norm.

When I popped my shoulder out of socket it was a pretty terrible experience. I was using a wider grip when I did it, which is why I shifted to the narrower grip. I heard a criiiccckkkk pop and cried out in pain when it happened, then I couldn't move my arm for about ten minutes. I've broken my hand twice, received concussions, been kicked to where I couldn't bend my leg, and have had a ton of other random injuries and I've only yelled out in pain in one other instance and that was when my arm got messed up really bad in an arm bar. That mess was no joke 0_0.

I'm taking it slow and easy. The girls are gonna' have to wait to be impressed xD

 

Man that sounds awful for sure. I was in my late 20's when I did mine. I was showing off and tossing transmissions around at work. It was one of those times where your good sense goes out the window for a minute, the motor's running but nobody's behind the wheel kind of stupid moves. The pain was intense for me also.

 

I should also add that if you did get a rotator cuff tear it won't ever truly heal because it's the socket that tears. You can work on building up the shoulder muscles to strengthen the area though. Just be super careful for a long while. With mine, they wanted to put a couple metal pins in there to hold it together. I elected the physical therapy option to try first and I haven't re-injured it since but I know my limits now. It took three months to get back to normal use.

 

I always try to watch myself at work. I move a lot of materials around and it benefits me to be able to carry multiple items at once, but some of them are pretty heavy. We specialize in gypsum which is about 115lbs a sheet, but I'll carry two at a time. Gets tiring when you're moving 20-30 sheets at a time though. The 5/8 thick sheets are even heavier, and carrying two of those really sucks bad. The sheets are also 12' long so it makes it super awkward as well.

Stop throwing trannys around man xD (xD)

 

See a physio is my advice. I've been having similar issues and was doing rotator cuff work but it was just getting worse. Saw a physio and it turned out to be my AC joint which was in turn impinging on my rotator cuff.

 

I found using a slingshot supporter helped a lot and totally did away with any shoulder issues I was having.