Help me add more power to my uppercut?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Morik, May 31, 2016.

  1. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Hi (sorry this got kinda long...),

    I have a small smattering of martial arts experience: A little tae kwan doe & karate when I was pretty young (somewhere from 7-9 I believe, and I'm 34 now), but only up to yellow belt; the school moved.
    More recently (4 years ago now) I took Aikido for maybe 10 classes; the schedule was too out of sync with my work schedule though and ended up being too hard to maintain.

    Then even more recently (perhaps 1.5 years ago now) I participated in a small class (2-3 students usually showed up) taught by a colleague for free at work. He had background in Muay Thai, Boxing, and Submission Wrestling.
    This class involved full contact sparring (face mask, mouth guard, open-finger 8-oz MMA gloves). The instructor indicated we would eventually have full-on contact with stand-up, clinch, and ground open to us, but as beginners we started with just boxing for the full sparring.

    We worked on the 4 basic boxing strikes (at least, the 4 basic as far as I know from him): jab, cross, hook, uppercut.

    I have very good power with my jab, cross, and hook. The teacher commented that I can hit VERY hard. (I'm ~290lb guy with a big belly but lots of muscle; working on losing weight)
    I never could quite get the hang of the uppercut though...

    Anyway, I took maybe 10 classes of that, but then the instructor's schedule got too swamped and he had to stop teaching the class.

    Fast forward to a few weeks ago: I joined a Jiu Jitsu class (traditional, not brazilian, mixed with some boxing & self-defensey stuff like dealing with guns/knives/multiple attacks/de-escalation/etc).

    We worked on jabs, crosses, elbows, hooks, and uppercuts one day with pads. I again had trouble getting anywhere near the power I get in my other shots into the uppercut.
    The guy working with me (one main instructor & 3-4 other instructors from advanced brown & black belts, I was working with an advanced black belt ) told me to put more hip into it, but that didn't seem to help much.

    I think where I'm running into trouble is the small squat-thrust type motion (at least, that is how I've been thinking of it; similar lower body motion as when you are doing an overhead squat thrust/push); I can't seem to coordinate the power from that well while also putting my hip into it.

    I have a 150lb Thai heavy bag (6' tall) at home that I use for strike practice (got it a few years ago when I was in that MMA class at work), but the shape isn't very conducive to upper cuts.
    I considered getting an uppercut bag, but I don't have much room; the heavy bag is in a corner of my basement with enough room to manuever around it in a 180-degree arc (its in a corner, the other 180-arc is taken up with the support legs (its hung on a very sturdy stand) & basement walls. Its out far enough that I have a good 8 ft. of lateral movement in front of it.

    Anyway, not sure the best way to practice without an uppercut bag; I try to throw some in occasionally when using the Thai bag, but it is very awkward.

    My best guess is that I'm not getting the form quite right, and that is keeping me from giving it the same power that my other strikes have.

    Any advice on form/technique? Any recommended videos that walk through it real slow?
     
  2. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Well firstly, power really isn't everything. Upper cuts as knockouts are less common than hooks and straights.

    My advice would be to go boxing, and watch loads of youtube videos.
     
  3. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    In the striking art, you want to create a "head on collision" that A + B > A. To pull your opponent's head into your uppercut is always a good idea.
     
  4. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I do have access to a boxing class that runs (1/week at my office, so relatively casual, but I've heard the instructor knows his stuff), but it conflicts with my schedule right now. I will be looking to join it in a few weeks when my schedule for that day changes a bit.

    I realize power isn't everything, but I can feel lots of power in even my very fast jabs. And tons more in my cross & hook.
    My uppercut by comparison feels almost like I imagine it would if I stood completely still and just moved my arm & shoulder to do an uppercut. (I know its not quite that weak, but I can tell physically upon impact that I am missing something...)

    I suppose I could wait a few weeks and find out at the boxing class.

    All 3 of the other strikes have the driving power of my hip & body on a vector that shoves in behind the force of my hand. I.e., all the force is forward towards my opponent, and shoves in with my arm. Even on hooks the power is mostly aligned with how the arm is swinging.

    With an uppercut I feel like I'm splitting my power between forward (from the hip) and up (from the squat-thrust type motion), but that the impact surface best applies force upwards. I.e., the hip isn't as efficient as the squat-thrust motion in generating uppercut power because the generated force isn't aligned with the impacting surface of my hand.

    Thinking about this, now my best guess is that I'm not doing the squat-thrust motion correctly to get that upward burst of power into it. (It does feel quite awkward when I do it, feels like I'm exagerating it, but still missing out on power.)
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  5. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I feel like if I'm close enough to get a hand behind their head to help them into a strike I'm throwing, I'd rather be throwing an elbow. (I may be thinking about this incorrectly, on account of my newness. I do know that ~10 classes in each of 3 different martial arts over 25ish years means I know basically nothing.)
     
  6. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    ^^ Good idea. ^^

    I was taught to keep my hand at my face (where it's always supposed to be), palm in, and bend the knees a little to drop lower. Then as the hips turn, thrust up with the shoulder. That is, drive it into the opponent with your shoulder muscles. Knees will naturally straighten a bit so you're hitting with the combined force of hip rotation, legs, and shoulder.
     
  7. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    For me it's all about the hip drive and there isn't a great deal of movement with the arm.

    Imagine a fist or a knife on your hip and a pad a few inches above it.

    Now drive that fist or knife into the pad.

    This is the movement you need. A sharp drive up from the legs and hips.

    I had my guys work this tonight and here is an old video of one of my students working with weights.

    Hold a small weight, drive the hips for 30 seconds, then drop the weight and repeat the movement.

    [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKjNk5mGT9s"]Working the hip drive - YouTube[/ame]
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2016
  8. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Thanks Simon--I think I've also been over-extending my arm because I wasn't at the proper distance from my target.

    I see with the way your student was doing it in the video that I could indeed be close enough to get a hand behind their head to draw them into my uppercut (at least in some situations).

    I think I am pushing my shoulder forward in its socket, while your student appear to just rotate it (and rotate at the hip too). Keeping my shoulder back will reduce the range but maybe that is where I'm losing a lot of power?

    I don't think I have the hip motion right either based on your description. I'll give those tips a shot.
     
  9. ned

    ned Valued Member

    You probably just need a decent stint of time dedicated to one thing .

    If you want to improve your upper cut , then stick with just the boxing ( at a dedicated club or gym ) for a year and concentrate on that discipline .
    There are probably other issues they'll identify/fix which you're not even aware of , plus you'll get some hardcore conditioning - that was my experience :) .
     
  10. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I am more interested in grappling than striking right now; I do plan to pick up the 1/week boxing class at work, but I also want to stick with the JJJ I just started training (right now 2x/week, yellow belts & up have more classes available & more open mat times--the weekly open mat for all levels is at a time that doesn't work for me).

    At JJJ class tonight I worked with a black belt who mentioned 2 things we worked on correcting with my uppercut (we were doing pad drills with jabs, hooks, crosses, and uppercuts). He said I was extending my arm too far and I was not moving my hips correctly (paraphrasing), which I was happy to hear since that is what I also identified after watching that video Simon posted (because it means I correctly identified at least my biggest 2 issues, assuming he is also correct). That was without me saying anything about it.

    Anyway, after his explanation, I think what I was doing wrong with my hips is I was kind of moving in a very sharp V pattern, and was completing the hip movement maybe 0.25 seconds before my hand hit.

    The way I think of it now is that my elbow & hip are both connected with a metal rod or something that won't let them move independently, and I drop my hip & elbow then explode up, but its more like a U than a V. And I was moving my arm too much, resulting in it hitting before my hip finished moving. I should let the force of the hip drive my fist into the target.
    Thinking of my elbow & hip connected together and moving in the same pattern together helped a lot I think (still needs a lot of work, but I could feel the difference when I was hitting tonight after he showed me the proper movement).
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2016
  11. CrowZer0

    CrowZer0 Assume formlessness.

    I would take this with 3 different points to focus on and consider.

    1. Make sure your technique is correct and you are driving your hips and using adequate foot movement.

    2. Maybe you're just more used to pushing, and using your triceps so your straights and crosses would have more power, also a hook comes quite instinctively to most people.

    3. Whenever you strike a target (mitts) etc, visualise the target as above that so your aim isn't to hit the target/mitts but through it.

    Your biceps could just be underdeveloped, and your body may not be used to this movement, so practice it more while keeping in mind the body mechanics, punching through the target, and maybe work on some strength, for this specific mechanic.
     
  12. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    The use of the head is very important and helps with generating power of the hips and legs from the floor or foot of the side your on at that time I.e a left uppercut is most powerful when the head is over the left leg and being included in the movement

    Head and movement

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=44kDtSNuuDc#

    1min 10 the uppercuts mentioned

    Tyson showing how it's done

    [ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jo2JxpcJ2BA&feature=youtu.be#[/ame]

    Other uppercut knockouts

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=I895v2ZNSto

    Notice the position and use of the head on every knockout. Same side
     
  13. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Haha that Steve Morris is an intense dude! Liked the video. Never heard of him. Will check out his stuff as it seems good. Nice one Badger Ladder.
     
  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    One note about carrying excess weight: be gentle with your knees!

    You don't want to lose that weight just to find out you've damaged your knees in the process.

    I thought that Steve Morris explained it in a bit of an odd way, for me, but it is true that where the head goes, the centre of gravity follows (when upright), and that is important in generating power.
     
  15. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Yeah my knees aren't great (not too bad, but not great).

    I went through a several year period where I was exercising very minimally (maybe 2/month to the gym, if that). My knees grew much worse during that time (going up/down stairs, sometimes standing up from sitting, etc, would all hurt them).

    Once I started exercising again more regularly the pain has mostly gone away.
     
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Definitely exercise is good. Just try to avoid too much weight-bearing with the knee further forward than the ankle, or bending the leg beyond 90 degrees (with weight on it). If you are jogging or running, try not to do it down steep hills.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016
  17. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    For a while I was walking for 30 min each weekday, but haven't for a bit.
    I've been pretty tired from the 2x/week jiu jitsu classes on the day after, and didn't want to sap my energy the day of, which means I could probably still do it on Monday, but I'm planning to box on Mondays (then jiu jitsu tues & thurs).

    I also have access to a yoga class at work, though only one of the class times works for me. But it is vinyasa power flow yoga and it leaves me pretty tired afterwards (on the same day as jiu jitsu).

    My goal right now is to increase fitness to the point where I can still train hard in jiu jitsu (and in boxing when I start doing that) and also do yoga and/or walking. (I think in maybe 2-4 weeks I'll be there)

    The jiu jitsu has really been kicking my ass, the first day I felt like I was gonna puke for 4 hours after the class, took it easier after that and just had a pretty good headache after the 2nd & 3rd class, 4th class was ok but still felt pretty bad, 5th class was the first one where I actually felt good after the class. I drink about 20oz of water during the hour class and maybe 20-24oz in the 1.5 hours before the class.
    I know I should probably drink more but I feel so full off it--I also eat a small (~400-500cal) meal about 1.5-2.5 hours before class; I hadn't the first time and think I really ran out of energy.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2016

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