Tai Chi and Qigong Health Studies

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by jadedragonalask, Sep 16, 2016.

  1. jadedragonalask

    jadedragonalask New Member

    Tai Chi has been shown to help with balance, high blood pressure, arthritis, cancer and back problems.

    Qigong has helped with high blood pressure, circulation and balance.

    Tai Chi Health Studies

    Tai Chi reduces pain and improves mood and physical functioning more than standard stretching exercises, reduces stiffness, stress, hypertension and high blood pressure, increases circulation and energy, improves balance,meditation, sleep and breathing, provides resistance to disease, and enhances the function of internal organs.

    The Benefit of Tai Chi for the Elderly
    CNN Report - August 16, 2002 - Kick boxing, karate and tae kwon do often come to mind when thinking of martial arts. What about Tai Chi?

    According to Alternative Medicine: The Definitive Guide," many hospitals in China use Tai Chi; combined with conventional medicine -- as part of their health-care programs."

    With its growing popularity in the United States, the exercise program has shown promise in improving balance and flexibility among seniors.

    Tai Chi has been found to reduce stress, increase circulation, and improve meditation and breathing.

    Experts say it also provides resistance to disease, provides energy and enhances the function of internal organs.

    Tai Chi Martial Art Can Tackle Pain: Study

    "A new study by Australian researchers has found that the Chinese martial art of Tai Chi could have positive health benefits for arthritis sufferers.

    Tai chi is often described as "meditation in motion," but it might well be called "medication in motion." There is growing evidence that this mind-body practice, which originated in China as a martial art, has value in treating or preventing many health problems. And you can get started even if you aren't in top shape or the best of health.
    ...

    In a 40-person study at Tufts University, presented in October 2008 at a meeting of the American College of Rheumatology, an hour of tai chi twice a week for 12 weeks reduced pain and improved mood and physical functioning more than standard stretching exercises in people with severe knee osteoarthritis."

    KC Tai Chi master Bill Douglas is taking his case to D.C., by JAMES A. FUSSELL, The Kansas City Star

    Bill Douglas has two words for a country desperate to cut its skyrocketing health care costs. Tai chi.

    He’s not kidding.

    “If you look at a Kaiser Permanente study that says that 70 percent of illnesses are caused by stress, you’re talking about a potential savings of trillions of dollars, year after year if we teach our citizens effective stress-management techniques on a massive scale.”

    Classical Tai Chi

    Many westernized versions of Tai Chi make it easier for westerners to practice an approximation of Tai Chi; such as simplified Tai Chi, Tai Ching, and Tai Chi for Arthritis. These are new creations that have little to do with the Classical Tai Chi.

    The health studies base their statistics of improving arthritis on the original Tai Chi which is hundreds of years old. Those parading their own special version of Tai Chi, do so for hussling unsuspecting elders and those that are gullible, since they have no contact with Chinese or those who practice the true Tai Chi.

    When Tai Chi moves are simplified, they loose the Qi, that is built into the system.

    These carpetbaggers are not true Tai Chi Masters or Sifus, they will use the terms like Doctor, or director. They have more training in marketing, than they do in the Tai Chi they allegedly know. Mimicking Tai Chi moves to cure arthritis, is no more than dance. Learn to do practice the original Classical Tai Chi Chuan, with Qi.

    Tai Chi May Be An Effective Treatment For Dizziness, Balance Issues

    ScienceDaily (Oct. 5, 2009) — Tai Chi, a form of Chinese martial arts often practiced for its health benefits, may be an effective treatment option for patients who suffer from dizziness and balance disorders (also known as vestibular disorders).

    In a paper presented at the 2009 American Academy of Otolaryngology – Head and Neck Surgery Foundation (AAO-HNSF) Annual Meeting & OTO EXPO in San Diego, researchers evaluated the utility of Tai Chi in managing patients with vestibular symptoms who have failed conventional vestibular therapy. It could include individualized physical therapy or different sets of physical maneuvers that a doctor performs on a patient.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  2. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

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  3. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Taiji training for "health" is designed for "old", "sick", and "weak". If you are not "old", "sick", or "weak", only Taiji training is not enough for you.

    From the "health" point of view (without referencing to any MA system),

    - to improve "balance", you will need to train "single leg balance" (just to stand on both legs is not enough).

    [​IMG]

    - to improve "back problem", you will need to stretch your low back, and train backward bending (just to keep your head vertical above your shoulder is not enough).

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  4. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    When one does the basic Tai Chi Walk, one is balanced on one leg as you step forward. And since it is usually done slowly, that is a type of single leg training. Also, practicing the kicks is single leg balance. Also practicing moves like .Golden rooster stands one one leg.......well the one leg part should be a hint.......also single leg balance. Also moving from positions like snake creeps low to golden rooster stands on one leg - particularly if you do not put that one foot down in transition is single leg balance training.

    And while you are right that one does not do backwards bending in TCC, one does do it in Qigong training, which many TCC schools teach to some extend as part of their TCC training. 8 pieces of brocade as one example - has several moves where one bends backwards.

    Really, for someone who has the experience in TCC that I understand you do, you don't have much good to say about it. You are often commenting on what you think it is lacking. Even making claims like it doesn't improve balance, which most every TCC practitioner I have known, myself included, thinks it does indeed help greatly with balance.

    I have found the slow moving of TCC has helped my balance overall and in my CLF training too.

    I really am curious, do you still practice it? If so, you must find something redeeming about it. Right? What would that be?

    Or did you become disillusioned with TCC the way some MMA people express disillusionment with past practiced traditional arts?

    I would like to understand where you are coming from.
     
    chatter box likes this.
  5. Tom bayley

    Tom bayley Valued Member

    Good ballance is not allways a good thing. My mother aged 82 has been doing wild goose chi gung for 5 years.

    a while ago I found her in the garden balanced on top of a 4 foot high compost heap cutting some climbing roses. I accused her of being an evil little old lady who knew perfectly well that she should not be doing that sort of thing because she could fall off. She replied by saying "but I do chi gung" and stood on one leg with perfect balance.
     
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  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    From what I understand from physios who've worked with elderly fall groups and looked into Tai Chi, the balance benefits are a lot simpler than most martial artists might assume.

    It is really about training people out of leading with their head and using a falling step, which is very common in the West, and instead learning to keep their head over their feet and transfer weight more smoothly from foot to foot. Those that are able also practice hopping steps to shift their centre of gravity over their foot to avoid toppling over.

    Though these same physios gave up on Tai Chi in short order when the instructor started talking about using Qi instead of muscles to move across the room, and went back to proper evidence based practice :D
     
  7. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Cancer? Really? Has this been attested to in recognized medical journals?-and I don't mean things like TCM journals.

    OK, I think it's safe to say that almost,if not all,of the benefits ascribed to TC training can be acquired by proper training in any of the martial systems. I also think it's safe to say that the general health benefits of any of the martial systems have more to do with the overall fitness acquired- which entails more than just practicing forms or even partner work.For the ill,injured,or the advanced in age the training methods will naturally not be the same as for someone lacking these disadvantages.

    So,Mr. W., while you oftimes show exercises for movements not found within TC forms,which are only part of the training,I'd like to point out that while I have some reprints of old SJ training manuals,I've yet to see one which shows anyone doing roadwork.

    So I could easily slag on SJ's lack of overall fitness due to lack of evidence of aerobic training.Except of course I know that both SJ and TC people -(well,at least people who actually use TC,functionwise)- are doing some sort of aerobic training or they wouldn't last long on the court. The same as most people doing flexibility training will utilize motions/positions not found in their formal hand/weapon sets. I'd add that the pillar sets of my Fu Hok Hung don't have any bending backward or extended standing on leg----and,so what?

    There's no real strength training in any MA forms I've seen,unless you count tension exercises,which are a poor substitute for any type of real resistance training.

    One last thing,I have a squeezed disc in my lower back,can be "rather" problematic.So I'm supposed to do certain stretches for it. They work ok.But honestly,if I do an hours worth of my Yang solo hand forms,much more effect than the stretching,which includes bending backward stretches.,Go figure.

    P.S.-I admit I never understood people in their 20s w/no problems studying TC "for health".

    Why didn't they just tell him that was jive?
     
  8. huoxingyang

    huoxingyang Valued Member

    Just an aside, but someone at tai chi class mentioned this idea to me the other day, and I had no idea this was even a thing before then :dunno:
     
  9. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    When most people stop doing their MA style and switch into Taiji in their old age. I feel like to do the "opposite". I know that I don't belong to the "main stream". Taiji just doesn't make me feel "young". My interest and priority is no longer in Taiji.

    I'll feel "young" when I do this:

    [​IMG]

    I'll feel old when I do this"

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  10. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    When you are young and healthy, you should jump, run, flip in the air, ... and enjoy your "youth".

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2016
  11. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    It was his class, so they just never went back rather than pick an argument in front of his students.
     
  12. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    This is my concern. If you only train the weight shifting when your center is inside your base, you are not challenge your "rooting" enough.

    You have to:

    - move your center to be outside of your base,
    - let the gravity to pull your body,
    - you then regain your balance back.

    IMO, this kind of "dynamic rooting" training is important for old people.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  13. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    The evidence is generally there that Tai Chi practice helps combat a wide variety of stress-related disorders, and is generally useful for physical maintenance. Anything that combats stress generally promotes health. Of course therein lies the rub, without regular applications of stress, Tai Chi as a combat art appears useless. Qi gong similarly has both combat and non-combat applications, so it's pretty diversified. The world is big enough for both types of Tai Chi Chuan. Qi gong is even more broad and includes everything from breathing and awareness to stretching and body weight exercises to heavy weight training. In a way the entire style of Tai Chi Chuan is one big Qi Gong exercise set. It makes sense that as you get old, you can't do it all, but what you can still do, is what matters.

    I think the evidence is varied on ailments like arthritis and cancer, which makes sense, because in some cases any physical movement is a bad thing, or cancer is going to kill you no matter how much you exercise, et cetera.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2016
  14. jadedragonalask

    jadedragonalask New Member

    Tai Chi and Cancer, immune function

    According to University of Rochester Medical Center researchers, “Cancer-related stress affects all patients with cancer and negatively impacts cancer outcomes in terms of response to treatment, quality of life, disease progression, and survival in different phases of their experience.” In response to cancer patients’ desires to take a natural approach and delay or avoid the use of harmful chemo or radiation therapy, “The prevalence of [complementary and alternative medicine] use in patients with history of cancer is growing.” Delightfully, research studies with cancer patients utilizing complementary or mind-body interventions indicate that practices like Tai Chi are being utilized globally to reduce psychological distress, improve coping skills and also enhance immune function through what is knows as neuroendocrine-immune system modulation. There is even hope that, by enhancing immune function, CAM will prove to be a viable first-step approach to cancer treatment in the future.

    Type 1 immune reactions utilize both cell-mediated and humoral responses that act together in unison; whereas type 2 immune reactions generate humoral responses only and actively suppress cell-mediated responses. A proper balance of these two responses to cancer cells is believed to provide sufficient human immunity against tumors. Subsequently, to discover how Tai Chi affects this balance, Shanghai University of Sport researchers took 32 postsurgical non-small cell lung cancer patients and had them participate in a 16-week Tai Chi program. Recently published in the journal Cancer Nursing, the results are very promising. The researchers found that the 16-week Tai Chi program “significantly diminished the magnitude of the decreased T1/T2 ratio in comparison to the control group” and was even shown to decrease the stress hormone cortisol in comparison to the control group; indicating that cellular stress levels were deceased and in much better balance due to practicing Tai Chi. The implications for cancer patient is paramount as, “Tai Chi may have a role in ameliorating the imbalance between humoral and cellular immunity, potentiating human immunity against tumors.”
     
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    So after 16 weeks they decided that Tai Chi makes the immune system kill tumours?

    Poppycock.

    At best, it is an adjunct therapy.

    One example, I can find more if you like:

    "Compared with control therapies, the pooled results suggested that TCC showed significant effects in improving handgrip dynamometer strength, limb elbow flexion (elbow extension, abduction, and horizontal adduction). No significant differences were observed in pain, interleukin-6, insulin-like growth factor, BMI, physical well-being, social or emotional well-being, or general health-related quality of life. Conclusion. The short-term effects of TCC may have potential benefits in upper limb functional mobility in patients with breast cancer."

    - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4352428/
     
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    You're still thinking like a fit person.

    I'm talking about people who never even learned to walk properly, and now they are falling over all the time.
     
  17. Xue Sheng

    Xue Sheng All weight is underside

    Well, well, well... if it isn't jadedragonalaska...again....hi.
     
  18. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    It's pretty sad to assume that the earth is filled with old, sick, and weak people.

    TKD has a good kicking drill. You use your right leg to

    - kick forward,
    - kick sideway, and
    - kick backward.

    You then repeat on the left leg. When you are doing all 3 kicks, your foot is not allowed to touch the ground. Not that easy to do? Yes! Good for health? Definitely.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2016
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I came up with that same drill by myself and do it a lot. What makes it even harder is alternating kicks so you have to pivot the supporting foot as well (front kick to side kick for instance).
     
  20. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    You know, jadedragonalask I mean this nicely, please properly cite your sources so others don't have to for you. I did go to read the NIH study you quoted, but had to hunt it down first and that's just rude when posting academic or medical work, please help a brother out :D

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3403456/

    So, what jadedragonalask's study says is that the stress of having cancer can be as bad or worse than actually having cancer, and it's the anti-STRESS, and not necessarily anti-CANCER, effects of Tai Chi practice that seem to have positive benefits to CANCER patients, which makes sense because there's a lot of evidence it helps people in general, fighting cancer or otherwise. It's effective therapy like David said, but one of many required to battle cancer.

    That's what I got from reading the paper, as opposed to jadedragonalask's copy and paste of its Conclusion... :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016

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