I'm getting started in Ninjutsu

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by ceyeb0rg, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. ceyeb0rg

    ceyeb0rg Valued Member

    Hi guys,
    I just found this Sensei in Ottawa who says he's from Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi's lineage, as he's one of Stephane Meunier's students.

    I went to one of his classes and I was satisfied so far with the way he teaches/treats his students. His group is pretty small and he seems to limit access to his dojo only for serious students. He also has kind of a military approach on the subject so I feel like he's not "playing ninja".

    The whole thing looks pretty legit to me.

    The thing is, with my working schedule right now it'll take a while before I can fully join his class. So I'm trying to do some research on the subject, I wanna make myself as "teachable" as possible.
    Please give me some tips as to what I should work on by myself until I can do the real thing.

    I know his Sensei's Sensei is supposed to be Dr. Kacem Zoughari and I'm reading his book right now : "The Ninja: Ancient Shadow Warriors of Japan (The Secret History of Ninjutsu)".

    Any other suggestions?
    I'm really interested in writings as much as the art itself so anything legit that's related will do.

    Enlighten me.
     
  2. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    My advice is to work on:
    - Kamae (postures)
    - Ukemi (rolling and break falling)
    - Sanshin (basic movements)

    There are lots of tutorials on YouTube etc and these can be practiced solo

    Hope this helps
     
  3. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Genuine question but is it a good idea to practice from you tube when it comes to the bujinkan?

    I can see it being problematic given how much infighting there is around 'correct' technique.

    Wouldn't it be better to just work out to gain a better level of physical conditioning, flexibility, propreoception and Strength and leave the training material for what your teacher shows you?

    I would advice anyone to make themselves a blank slate before attending any classes rather than come armed with preexisting conceptions and habits.
     
  4. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    A safe place to get started is here http://youtu.be/j_nMYNjOWTo
    The video is old and has a healthy dose of dramatic license but if you go to the following places I think it'd be helpful

    Kamae - 11.30
    Ukemi - 4.34
    Sanshin - 25.10
     
  5. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Dr. Kacem Zoughari is very good at Bujinkan Martial arts, if you want to learn Bujinkan martial arts, his students are the way to go.


    Fully agreed!
     
  6. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Oh - just adding that for the 1st sanshin technique (called sanshin tsuki in the video) the striking arm shouldn't be raised. It just comes from the hip
    We asked Ishizuka sensei about this ages ago and he said he was a bit nervous and got it wrong, but Soke didn't want to re-shoot it
     
  7. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    You can only learn the bujinkan arts by travelling to Japan and training with one of the shihan in a very close student/teacher relationship.
     
  8. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    This is what please reality asserts at least.

    I'm not entirely unconvinced given how much of a shambles the Buj is.
     
  9. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Honestly you can learn to stand in a posture, roll/breakfall and perform basic strikes without going to Japan....

    There's a spectrum and of course you need feedback. However, we have to move beyond the canned answer of "Go live in Japan" to every question that's posted here
     
  10. Dead_pool

    Dead_pool Spes mea in nihil Deus MAP 2017 Moi Award

    Telling any newby to learn from youtube is always a mistake.
     
  11. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Yeah as a general rule I agree, but there is good content out there - surely it's OK if you point at it?
     
  12. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    It's not a terrible idea to use YouTube to support your learning... But it's not a very good idea to use YouTube as your only source.

    I wouldn't advise a guy who wanted to box (for example) to spend any time working specific boxing skills to make them more teachable in advance of class.

    If you want to be more teachable then the best thing is to either empty your cup entirely and/or to have a background in something similar that has a load of transferable skills. The later is something you either have or you don't and the first one should always be an option.

    I can't see the benefit of self training in advance of going to class it'll probably do more harm than good.
     
  13. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Agreed

    Why?

    It seems to me to be fairly self evident that you'll get more from the class if you're working on appropriate, solo drills, outside of class. Whether that's in between classes or before you get a chance to start doesn't, to my mind, make a fundamental difference (other than in the scenario where you're not planning to start training for a while, in which case I'd agree that doing something else that's local/convenient is a better approach)
     
  14. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    I think the op's enthusiasm is great. I think it's great that someone knowledgeable has been able to point them in the direction of good credible resources. I think the issue with delving in and self educating before you are able to join a class are:

    A) you run into the issue of thinking you know stuff when you probably don't. You get this all the time in MMA gyms from guys who are big fans of the sport and are only just starting to train. They think they know stuff but they don't and it hampers their learning. It's a negative mindset that impairs your reception to instruction and can make you try to run before you can walk.

    B) you engrain errors which need unlearning. It's easier to learn things the way your coach/teacher wants first.

    You can never have enough conditioning though and nothing wrong with reading about the academic side of the art you are learning.

    Maybe get Kazem's book?
     
  15. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Well to be fair brother I think what Please Reality typically advocates is that, as a Japanese art form, it's best learned in Japan because it is a Japanese art form and Japanese historical relic; not quite that it can't be learned outside Japan, but that by and large, Japan is where Ninjutsu is from, and where you can get the most 'authentic' experience, without getting into any arguments over what 'authentic' Ninjutsu really is :D Simply put even if the whole thing is a sham, at least by training in Japan...you've BEEN to Japan :D As opposed to all the self-proclaimed 'ninjutsu experts' out there who have never set foot there.

    Training in Japan should give you a special perspective on the art, in the same way training Shaolin kung fu at Songshan is a unique experience. You are not only learning the arts, but in the place of their respective birth. I think you can argue this creates a closer understanding, in a way, than just learning 'the art', whether it's something online or at a commercial school.

    You can learn an art from anyone, anywhere, obviously. You don't have to travel to Italy to learn to paint. BUT, traveling to Italy and seeing up close some of the greatest paintings in history is a unique thing. Seeing the same artwork on the Internet or in a book, or having it described to you by an instructor, doesn't come close to standing within the Cistine Chapel.

    As of today, the living 'source' of Bujinkan is in Japan (namely Mr. Hatsumi), and many of his first generations of students reside there. That could change over future generations in the same way that Jiujitsu and Judo migrated to Brazil. You will definitely find a lot of people who claim BJJ can be learned anywhere, but some of the best BJJ is found in Brazil, indeed, that it's part of the culture and history there, and the same thing can be said about ninjutsu and Japan, or even Hung Gar and Southern China.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
  16. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Most of the best BJJ has migrated. I'd probably go to Cali over Brazil.

    Regardless I think PR point is specific to how the org is run, cultural influences on transmission and what you have to do to access proper honest instruction and what you need to prove as a student.

    I'm not sure either way as I don't go near the Buj.

    I definitely see a lot of bickering over what good bujinkan budo Taijutsu training and technique looks like though (more so than is common) which leads me to believe training solo would be confusing at best.
     
  17. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    I think the training in Japan thing is nonsense personally.

    Sure we all want to be the best we can, but not everyone who enters a gym wants to be Ronnie Coleman.

    People train for different reasons and I'm of the opinion that as long as your instructor is of a high standard and can challenge you each time you enter class then you are doing just fine.

    Sure after several years of training you may wish to seek out something extra, but it's a stupid nonsense to say you have to train in Japan.
     
  18. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    You're probably on point here (of course people will argue..) but isn't that even better evidence of what will probably happen to Ninjutsu over time? The 'ninja boom' has only been percolating for about 30 years, what will it look like in 50 or longer? It's resulted in much travel to Japan, and back again. Clearly the Bujinkan and similar organizations have heavily promoted that sort of thing. But isn't the end result of all of that going to continue to disseminate the art, to where in the future people won't really have any reason at all to visit Japan (except for their historical interests). Currently the argument is 'Japan is where The Master is'. That won't be true in a few years, then the argument wil be 'Japan is where the late Master's best students are'. And then before long the 'best' instruction will probably by then have moved around like it has between Japan, Brazil, and now as you put it, California. Who knows where the best Ninjutsu will end up? Maybe it will also be California :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016
  19. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    Might well be! I don't have enough knowledge of the art in either context to back a stance :)
     
  20. Knee Rider

    Knee Rider Valued Member Supporter

    For sure, you never know.

    Depends how it migrates and for what reasons I guess.

    I look at the Bujinkan like I would a couple arguing outside tescos... Just keep moving and leave to it :D
     

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