A matter of respect.....or lack thereof

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by campsinger, Oct 5, 2016.

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  1. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Go to the hombu or lookup where the masters teach. I'm not hard to find.

    Search for whatever it is you want to read up on. How can you be an academic and not know how to use a search engine?

    Sorry if you're feelings are hurt but we are all adults here.:cry: If it makes you feel better, I'm just a blue meanie.

    What bold claims exactly?

    Grow up. You probably can't use anonymous online posts as sources, unless you go to Trump University. Kool Aid leads to cavities. I prefer Columbian coffee. Bring some when you come to the dojo if you may.

    I'm hardly hiding, at practice every week. You can easily find the dojos of the masters of the Takamatsuden, visiting any would allow you to question a master. I'd leave the attitude at customs though. You don't want to have your feelings hurt even more.

    I don't.

    We aren't comparing the size of our...libraries. Why so personal? You do sound like a serious academic(of the Cummins variety). I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything except that maybe, "If you want to learn these arts visit a master." People who know anything about these arts know what I do or don't have exposure to. Why would using the correct terminology to discuss things related to the Takamatsuden be confusing? I also give translations as we're supposed to.

    No, I said you shouldn't learn your history from his books or documentaries or you may going around saying things like Myoryuji got their understanding from ninja and get laughed out of your doctorate.



    You do seem to be the one getting excited.
     
  2. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Stop discussing Cummins, I'm not interested in your red herrings.

    All you do is poo-poo academia, because their mission (discovery) is counter to yours (secrecy)

    And no, there's almost none from YOUR very limited perspective.

    Are you a moderator now? Any more instructions?

    Who was talking about the Bujinkan? I was talking about Ninjutsu. And my point wasn't even to you, somebody ELSE wanted to see something "respectable" about Ninjutsu so I obliged.

    You're incapable of obliging anyone in the same regard, because of your attitude.

    Apparently you have little to no knowledge of Japanese history, and prefer to snipe about finding ninjas. Fine, have it your way.

    MAP, I hate to say it, and especially you, are probably one of the least useful sources for historical information on Ninjutsu there is. And you prove it over and over again, sniping at your critics and discussion partners instead of discussing.

    This is how I can tell you're not only not a historian, but you've spent very, very little time in libraries, discussion groups, or other academic venues with respect to historical Japan. You got all your information from 'insiders' didn't you? Nobody could debate the way you do without having some serious programming issues.

    I'm not laughing, I'm reporting you to the mods for pulling your same old, lame tricks. Nobody is as educated on Japan or ninjas as you, right? And to prove it, here's some more Japanese words and Iron Fist is ignorant.

    No way, brother. Keep telling me to change the way I talk, you'll get the same type of response as you're getting telling us all to change the way we think about you.
     
  3. Dunc

    Dunc Well-Known Member Moderator Supporter

    Hi PR and IronFist

    "Puts on MOD hat"

    Please could you try to keep the discussion away from personal insults - they don't make for interesting reading

    "Takes off MOD hat"

    Thanks loads
     
  4. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    To be fair to PR actually, I completely understand coming from an art with a lack of quality exemplars on youtube because of so few people having "teh reelz" as it were. Although I do seem to recall him pulling examples occasionally for demo of how something is properly done.
     
  5. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Sorry you still don't understand...

    Where exactly have I done that?


    Advice kid. Don't want to see you banned for something that simple.


    Something respectable about ninjutsu? You mean some means people took to counter ninjutsu. There, fixed it for you.


    :baby:



    So what historical books on ninjutsu have you read? In what language? What were the backgrounds of the authors? We can go on all day but it probably won't take more than a few minutes. What historians or academics have you debated ninjutsu with at what institutions?

    Did I say I was a historian? I am familiar with the state of ninjutsu research however, because I study ninjutsu. Sorry it doesn't sit right with you but you are out of your depth.


    Just explained them to you as per MAP protocols. Feel free to report me if you wish. I also tried to give you the name of another resource, a samurai residence similar to Ninjadera that also has no connection to ninjutsu but I guess that wasn't credible enough for you. Oh well.

    ps-I hope you don't see these as personal attacks. I admire the enthusiasm, but you are a bit out of your depth. I'd read up on old thread here to get familiarised and stop taking everything so personal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2016
  6. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Contracts everything you've ever posted.

    Straw man, you already know I know how to use one.

    You're not an adult, nor are you mean. You're evasive and weaselly.

    The claims that you're an authority on Japan or Ninjutsu, something I no longer believe. But you don't care you said....and here you are defending it over and over and over.

    Flippant attitude noted.

    More braggadocios you can't back up, which is par for the "Takamatsuden", a term that only has meaning to you and your schools, and no meaning outside of them that I have discovered. Establishing your own authority is the game you play, unfortunately not every can be easily deceived. You really don't think much of the IQ of other people, do you?

    OF COURSE you do, you are block-quoting me aren't you? Going line by line, aren't you? But it's ALL ad hominem, because that's the only form of rhetoric you know. Deconstruct your non-Bujinkan opponent is all you ever try, and I know because you do it whenever I try to have a serious discussion.

    Reported, I'm done with this sort of association game you play. We get you don't like Cummins, but that's the 3rd time you've tried to tie me to him, and I get why. It's the only trick in your bag, brother.

    Then post that, and stop taunting people.

    I'd avoid using the term "Correct terminology" without a proper source. It's not correct because you are your instructor says it is.

    "Myoryuji got their understanding from ninja", what the hell does that even mean. It's a Buddhist temple, not a group. The associations with Samurai, Ninjutsu, and Sun Tzu are CLEAR.

    You're not willing to have a real discussion, just play games. I get that now.

    Whatever man, like I said, stop trying head tricks. You're not as good at is as you think you are. More lessons in the ol' Ninpo, maybe outside the Bujinkan?
     
  7. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Yes you did just a few days ago. Add poor memory to your lack of honesty and sincerity.

    The rest of your post is more (repeated) garbage you've posted previously. I can continue my (real) research into Japanese medieval warfare without your heavily biased mentality, thanks.
     
  8. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Passive aggressive threat noted.
     
  9. Please reality

    Please reality Back to basics

    Best of luck.
     
  10. SWC Sifu Ben

    SWC Sifu Ben I am the law

    Cue the "thread locked pending MOD discussion"
     
  11. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    *Sigh*
    I know I don't mod this area , but , maybe this will catch your attentions

     
  12. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Mod note: I would highly recommend that dunc's request in his capacity as the topic moderator for this area be followed.

    It seems people need reminding that this is a zero tolerance forum.

    This is a final warning, the next personal attack and/ or sniping by anyone is going to result in a ban of some type.
     
  13. The Iron Fist

    The Iron Fist Banned Banned

    Since I'm "out of my depth" according to the 'experts', I had a talk with my faculty advisor this afternoon to gain some clarity.

    I explained my dilemma: I'm trying to fit certain elements into my problem statements regarding Nin-jutsu appearing within the wider realm of Asian warfighting cultures, and have been trying to include online martial arts 'personalities' into my surveys as a way of including both histrionic and non-histrionic sources (basically, both sincere sounding and crazy talk), and running into significant difficulties with regards to willingness to contribute in an objective way, especially given the situation with every school on Earth currently claiming to teach Ninjutsu in some way, shape or form, fighting with themselves and outsiders.

    She suggested that I not engage in online forum discussions with people who claim to be experts at Ninjutsu because, and I quote "there are none living, and no proof the arts are extant". That was good enough for me! :)

    I'll leave it at that. Won't be posting in the Ninjutsu forum any more, I'll leave it to the histrionic crowd it's gathered here. You folks clearly need a 'safe space' after all. You're not really welcome in serious academic circles, anyway.

    That was rude, but I'm not apologizing for it. Respect is earned, not taken, and the Bujinkan will never be taken seriously by outside sources because it's a business: a private enterprise with no ownership of authority on anything. Ninjutsu already is well understood and analyzed in the academic community.. but not these "X-kans" or people claiming to have trained or learned something secret there. They are the true "outsiders" of Ninjutsu, trying to convince you to believe them. When they are believable, let me know I'll work it into my CV: the one that was interested in the Ninjutsu-Bujinkan connection before this thread, but is now moving to Thailand, a much better source of extant martial art based on medieval Asian battlefield warfare that I can easily find significant evidence of in any direction I choose...literature, audiovisual, even philosophical. Never thought I'd change my problem statements, and it'll set me back a few months, but that's scholarship for you. Sometimes you hit a dead end, and have to start over.

    Muay Boran, here I come! Approval for problem statement was provided at 7:34pm eastern time.

    BEST WISHES!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
  14. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Mod note: The Iron Fist - Being insulting to Ninjutsu practioners like that is not going to be tolerated. Admitting rudeness to Ninjutsu practitioners and refusing to apologize for it right after several mod warnings has earned you some time away from MAP.

    I will repeat what I said earlier, either on here or another part of the Ninjutsu forum. Practitioners of ALL arts are welcome on MAP and that includes our Ninjutsu practitioners. Putting them down en masse like this is not going to be tolerated. There is a difference between critiquing and just being downright disrespectful to an art or style of MA.

    The mod team was serious about no more insults - to individuals or just insulting an entire style. Anyone else thinking about being rude or insulting in any way will join The Iron Fist on the naughty step. Any need to respond to Iron Fist in a personal insulting way will not be allowed either. As you can see, it is being taken care of. Report any posts you have issues with through the proper channels, not by retaliating here.

    Let's get back to some constructive Ninjutsu discussion here. Let's get back on topic everyone. Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2016
  15. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    But PR is still here? Oh God that sucks.
     
  16. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Mod Note: All we are asking for is for people to be polite and respectful to each other, even when disagreeing. And to stay on topic rather than snipe at each other.

    Thread locked pending mod discussion.
     
  17. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    If Iron Fist does return to the forum to lurk and read threads I have this bit of advice to him.

    If you are really a postgraduate historian you should have known better than to attempt to gain anything useful for your research on an online forum other than a reference to a researchable and citable text which you can use. Anything else is not good academic practice unless you are dealing with a reputable culture of oral transmission, in which case good practice is to talk directly to known (and again) citable people rather than trying to source information from anonymous posters on the internet.

    My credentials for that view?

    PhD in History.
    Former Secondary School History teacher.
    Former History Course Tutor at the University of St Andrews.
     
  18. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    After mod discussion, it has been decided to keep this thread closed. Enough people have been banned either temporarily or permanently from participating in this thread to see that it isn't being productive. It is time to close it for good.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2016
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